The inspection of the McCann's clothing by dogs Keela and Eddie in the gym.

[Wonderfulspam]

According to Martin Grime - cross-contamination on contact is instant. 

Also IIRC even articles washed in a washing machine will not completely get rid of cadaverscent.

I imagine if you were to load up a washing machine with say 1 contaminated item & the rest uncontaminated, the scent would likely spread around & transfer to other items of clothing.

Christ! If you laid them clothes out all at once & brought the dog in, he could be overwhelmed, he might not know where to start, he could get carried away, pick up some clothes in his mouth then snap his head back & start barking.

[Eleanor]

In fact, we don't need to take Martin Grime's word on that.

The Hamburg carpet square experiment was driven by the principle of cross-contamination.

The bodies of the two men used for the experiment were covered in cotton blankets to simulate a thin layer of clothing and to prevent direct contact of the carpet-squares with the body.

Then carpet squares were passed underneath and close to, but not touching, the buttock of either man, and held in position for lengths of time that varied.

Common to every carpet square without exception that was thus handled was that death-scent, cross-transferred to the carpet.

Who is Kaye Scarpetta, Eleanor?

A creation of Patrica Cornwell?

Yes, a creation of Patricia Cornwell, who is, or was a forensic scientist.

As for the carpet squares.  For how long had the bodies been dead?  And did they wash the carpet squares and then test?

I agree that cross contamination will occur, but it is much more complicated.  Although one might wonder why all of The McCann clothing wasn't contaminated if cross contamination was the case.

[Carana]

I imagine if you were to load up a washing machine with say 1 contaminated item & the rest uncontaminated, the scent would likely spread around & transfer to other items of clothing.

Christ! If you laid them clothes out all at once & brought the dog in, he could be overwhelmed, he might not know where to start, he could get carried away, pick up some clothes in his mouth then snap his head back & start barking.

Don't you find it odd that all the clothes to which he reacted came from the same box?

Going from memory... I still haven't worked out why the first item that he was interested in and threw up in the air was a tiny pair of blue shorts (not on the list), followed by the tiny red T-shirt that was on the list, followed by Kate's checkered trousers (thrown up in the air), but not her white blouse (which he just nuzzled, but which is on the list). And going around, much nuzzling and barking, and finally throwing up a large man-sized T-shirt - which didn't appear on the list either.

The list made no sense to me.

[Eleanor]

I imagine if you were to load up a washing machine with say 1 contaminated item & the rest uncontaminated, the scent would likely spread around & transfer to other items of clothing.

Christ! If you laid them clothes out all at once & brought the dog in, he could be overwhelmed, he might not know where to start, he could get carried away, pick up some clothes in his mouth then snap his head back & start barking.

So why didn't Eddie go doolally.  Or may be he did.  He wasn't very well behaved.

[ferryman]

Yes, a creation of Patricia Cornwell, who is, or was a forensic scientist.

As for the carpet squares.  For how long had the bodies been dead?  And did they wash the carpet squares and then test?

I agree that cross contamination will occur, but it is much more complicated.  Although one might wonder why all of The McCann clothing wasn't contaminated if cross contamination was the case.

This is the link:

http://pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg%201998.pdf

I would need to check, but I think the PMI was 3 hours.

Here is the critical bit:

The two bodies were placed in a supine position on top of a new and clean
table and a separate table was used for each individual. A cotton blanket was
wrapped around each body to preclude the direct contamination of the carpet
squares with the bodies while at the same time simulating a thin layer of
clothing covering each individual. A total of 32 carpet squares were placed
subsequently underneath the backside of the torsos. Within 45 min of the
arrival at the institute, 24 carpet squares (body A) were ‘‘contaminated’’ for
10 min during three consecutive sessions. Within 15 min of arriving at the
institute, eight other carpet squares (body B) were contaminated for 2 min
during two subsequent sessions. Additionally, living individuals who denied
having had any contact with deceased tissues served as control subjects and
contaminated an additional eight carpet squares. Immediately following the
contamination, the carpet squares were placed into airtight glass jars and
brought to the Police Dog Training Center (LPS 36) at the Hamburg State
Police Department

[Benice]

Gerry spent some hours in the Paynes apartment after vacating 5A.    With such heavily/freshly contaminated clothing, one wonders why no trace of cross contamination was found by Eddie on any of the furniture in that particular apartment.

[Carana]

Why didn't Grime have a list of the clothing items to which Eddie reacted??

[ferryman]

Gerry spent some hours in the Paynes apartment after vacating 5A.    With such heavily/freshly contaminated clothing, one wonders why no trace of cross contamination was found by Eddie on any of the furniture in that particular apartment.

Yes, good point.

[Benice]

Don't you find it odd that all the clothes to which he reacted came from the same box?

Going from memory... I still haven't worked out why the first item that he was interested in and threw up in the air was a tiny pair of blue shorts (not on the list), followed by the tiny red T-shirt that was on the list, followed by Kate's checkered trousers (thrown up in the air), but not her white blouse (which he just nuzzled, but which is on the list). And going around, much nuzzling and barking, and finally throwing up a large man-sized T-shirt - which didn't appear on the list either.

The list made no sense to me.

It was Martin Grime who noticed and commented on the fact that the articles alerted to all  came out of the same box.   Although he doesn't say why he thought that fact should be recorded.   

[ferryman]

It was Martin Grime who noticed and commented on the fact that the articles alerted to all  came out of the same box.   Although he doesn't say why he thought that fact should be recorded.

I knew they'd come out of the same box.

But I wasn't aware Grime himself commented on that ...

[Carana]

It was Martin Grime who noticed and commented on the fact that the articles alerted to all  came out of the same box.   Although he doesn't say why he thought that fact should be recorded.

You might be right, I haven't double-checked on that recently.

What I find more bizarre is... why didn't he have a list of what Eddie was supposed to have reacted to, given that he is the only person who can interpret his behaviour?

[ferryman]

You might be right, I haven't double-checked on that recently.

What I find more bizarre is... why didn't he have a list of what Eddie was supposed to have reacted to, given that he is the only person who can interpret his behaviour?

Probably because Keela was deployed first without reacting, making deployment of Eddie redundant.

Perhaps the more pertinent question is, why was Eddie deployed at all?

[Carana]

Did Grime have any background experience of Eddie alerting to clothing... or was this a tentatively new skill?

Either way, I still don't understand why Grime didn't have a list of the supposed items in question.

Was it left up to the PJ/GNR to interpret Eddie's alerts?

[Eleanor]

This is the link:

http://pawsoflife.org/Library/HRD/Oesterhelweg%201998.pdf

I would need to check, but I think the PMI was 3 hours.

Here is the critical bit:

The two bodies were placed in a supine position on top of a new and clean
table and a separate table was used for each individual. A cotton blanket was
wrapped around each body to preclude the direct contamination of the carpet
squares with the bodies while at the same time simulating a thin layer of
clothing covering each individual. A total of 32 carpet squares were placed
subsequently underneath the backside of the torsos. Within 45 min of the
arrival at the institute, 24 carpet squares (body A) were ‘‘contaminated’’ for
10 min during three consecutive sessions. Within 15 min of arriving at the
institute, eight other carpet squares (body B) were contaminated for 2 min
during two subsequent sessions. Additionally, living individuals who denied
having had any contact with deceased tissues served as control subjects and
contaminated an additional eight carpet squares. Immediately following the
contamination, the carpet squares were placed into airtight glass jars and
brought to the Police Dog Training Center (LPS 36) at the Hamburg State
Police Department

Thanks for that.  But can cadaver odour be eliminated by a washing machine cycle?  Or two? Or three?

Three months had passed before the dogs were employed, and even I wash my clothes from time to time.

You see, I just don't believe that Eddie was reacting to cadaver odour.

[ferryman]

Three months had passed before the dogs were employed, and even I wash my clothes from time to time.

That is the key part.

Not you washing your clothes, but what was the point of any it (in PdL, oh dear ...)

I think there was a point, that lay very far afield.

I choose to remain cryptic, for the moment ...