The crying incident as reported by Kate McCann.

[VIXTE]

How would old Mrs F know the child crying is Madeleine?

[pegasus]

How would old Mrs F know the child crying is Madeleine?

Mrs F indicated that crying came from apartment below, which narrows it down to 3 candidates, and what she says about age makes it likely it was the eldest of those 3 (source PF statement).

[pegasus]

Rachael Oldfield was next door all Wednesday night.  No way could she have missed any prolonged crying from next door. imo.

If  crying was in child bedroom (adjacent to RO bedroom) she would have heard.
Therefore if crying was WED night, it was not in child bedroom.... It was in lounge, or in adult bedroom (neither of which are adjacent to RO bedroom).

[VIXTE]

Mrs F indicated that crying came from apartment below, which narrows it down to 3 candidates, and what she says about age makes it likely it was the eldest of those 3 (source PF statement).

IMO it is impossible by Mrs F to pin it to being Madeleine.. unless she was there and saw her crying..

[pegasus]

IMO it is impossible by Mrs F to pin it to being Madeleine.. unless she was there and saw her crying..

Well it seems very likely the crying was in 5A.
Unless the crying stopping exactly at the moment when an adult returns is pure coincidence.
Certainly one was crying, and the thing everyone has missed is that if it was WED nite then the 2nd returning adult would NOT have heard it.

[VIXTE]

Well it seems very likely the crying was in 5A.
Unless the crying stopping exactly at the moment when an adult returns is pure coincidence.
Certainly one was crying, and the thing everyone has missed is that if it was WED nite then the 2nd returning adult would NOT have heard it.

How come?

[pegasus]

Because on WED nite its in the statements adult 1 returns first then a bit later adult 2 returns.
PS so if it was Wed nite then #2 never heard crying.

[VIXTE]

Because on WED nite its in the statements adult 1 returns first then a bit later adult 2 returns.
PS so if it was Wed nite then #2 never heard crying.

But didn't the Mrs F say crying was on the 1st? Which is Tuesday.

pegasus you are tailoring the evidence into a theory..

[pegasus]

But didn't the Mrs F say crying was on the 1st? Which is Tuesday.

pegasus you are tailoring the evidence into a theory..

I acknowledge that Mrs F's statement, as transcribed, states TUESDAY.
I am suggesting the possibility that this was a mistranscription and/or mistranslation into Portuguese.
If it was Tuesday it fits with nothing else.
If it was Wednesday it fits with the time first adult returned (about 2345ish, see statements), and most important it fits with the child bringing it up the very next morning.
Put it this way I think the child is correct and the translation/transcription of Mrs F's statement is incorrect.

[Benice]

Because on WED nite its in the statements adult 1 returns first then a bit later adult 2 returns.
PS so if it was Wed nite then #2 never heard crying.

If that was the case Mrs Fenn would have heard patio doors opening twice. 

[AnneGuedes]

I acknowledge that Mrs F's statement, as transcribed, states TUESDAY.
I am suggesting the possibility that this was a mistranscription and/or mistranslation into Portuguese.
If it was Tuesday it fits with nothing else.
If it was Wednesday it fits with the time first adult returned (about 2345ish, see statements), and most important it fits with the child bringing it up the very next morning.
Put it this way I think the child is correct and the translation/transcription of Mrs F's statement is incorrect.

The child never said she cried the night before, according to her parents' statements.
Perhaps the open shutters statement was a mistranscription ? Perhaps it should have been translated "shut" !

[VIXTE]

I acknowledge that Mrs F's statement, as transcribed, states TUESDAY.
I am suggesting the possibility that this was a mistranscription and/or mistranslation into Portuguese.
If it was Tuesday it fits with nothing else.
If it was Wednesday it fits with the time first adult returned (about 2345ish, see statements), and most important it fits with the child bringing it up the very next morning.
Put it this way I think the child is correct and the translation/transcription of Mrs F's statement is incorrect.

I don't understand this logic.
You think Mrs F is right 100% guessing it was Madeleine crying.
But then you think Mrs F is not right 100% about the day when this happened?
Why it could not be Mrs F really heard crying on Tuesday, but this was not Madeleine?

[pathfinder73]

I acknowledge that Mrs F's statement, as transcribed, states TUESDAY.
I am suggesting the possibility that this was a mistranscription and/or mistranslation into Portuguese.
If it was Tuesday it fits with nothing else.
If it was Wednesday it fits with the time first adult returned (about 2345ish, see statements), and most important it fits with the child bringing it up the very next morning.
Put it this way I think the child is correct and the translation/transcription of Mrs F's statement is incorrect.

The crying episode was mentioned before Madeleine disappeared which contradicts Kate saying that it wouldn't have crossed her mind again. Then she is worried about the unlocked patio door but sits with her back to it. Why wouldn't she want to see the unlocked patio door if she was worried? Have you ever thought that the crying episode had to be changed from TUE to WED because it was mentioned on the night Madeleine disappeared. It doesn't make sense to mention a TUE crying episode on the THUR. That would be mentioned on the WED evening unless there was a reason behind this crying incident being told on the night Madeleine disappeared. They cried abduction straight away - the crying episode set up the possibility of an abductor being present and the unlocked patio door set up how easy it was for an abductor to gain access to 5A.

[AnneGuedes]

The crying episode was mentioned before Madeleine disappeared which contradicts Kate saying that it wouldn't have crossed her mind again. Then she is worried about the unlocked patio door but sits with her back to it. Why wouldn't she want to see the unlocked patio door if she was worried? Have you ever thought that the crying episode had to be changed from TUE to WED because it was mentioned on the night Madeleine disappeared. It doesn't make sense to mention a TUE crying episode on the THUR. That would be mentioned on the WED evening unless there was a reason behind this crying incident being told on the night Madeleine disappeared. They cried abduction straight away - the crying episode set up the possibility of an abductor being present and the unlocked patio door set up how easy it was for an abductor to gain access to 5A.

They were careful not to mention when the crying occurred (they knew Mrs Oldfield was on the other side of the wall). Nobody heard but everybody inferred the crying was the night before. The crying episode explained the open door-window that Mr Oldfield's inside check (due to open shutters he couldn't pass by without noticing) required. The forced (best) or open (second best) shutters were crucial. This is what brought the media circus to PDL.

[Redblossom]

Mrs Fenn's statement


She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm


I don't understand this bit. Can anyone translate the Portuguese?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P9/09_VOLUME_IXa_Page_2413.jpg

Lines 27 and 28 I believe