Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Benice]

I don't  'wish'  that the McCanns were suspects  ...  I really don't

When Redwood was  asked whether  the McCanns  (  or their friends )  were on the  list of  'persons of interest'  he  had  to respond   ...  and a  "No comment"   simply wouldn't have cut it   (  there would have been a media frenzy resembling a shark feeding   ) 

Redwood knew that ...  and you do too 

We simply don't  know what is really going on with this investigation at the moment 

Quite properly so,  in my opinion

There is no way DCI Redwood would have made such an important statement if  it wasn't a true one.    The idea that he was somehow caught unawares and ''just said that'' is preposterous - he is a professional and the spokesman for SY in this case.    He has also made other statements about this case which fully corroborate that statement.   How do you account for those?

[Benice]

IIRC Mrs Fenn was certain the period she heard crying started at 10.30pm, because the BBC news had just finished on TV?
We do not have her statement in the original English, only its Portuguese translation, which says Tuesday.
If there was some kind of mistranslation or mixup and it was Wednesday, then the 10.30pm to 11.45pm period she stated would fit very well indeed with the adults being late home Wednesday (tapas barman statement).

But that is the night that Rachael Oldfield stayed at home all night in the apartment next door to the McCanns.  There is no way IMO that she would not have heard loud crying from next door for such a length of time as is claimed.

[icabodcrane]

There is no way DCI Redwood would have made such an important statement if  it wasn't a true one.    The idea that he was somehow caught unawares and ''just said that'' is preposterous - he is a professional and the spokesman for SY in this case.    He has also made other statements about this case which fully corroborate that statement.   How do you account for those?

I'm just saying that I don't think it is rational to assume that Scotland Yard are compelled to be entirely  'up-front'   about on-going investigations

They are allowed a certain  'latitude'  where press briefings are concerned

Quite rightly

[AnneGuedes]

There are no statements from the Tapas Restaurant staff  to say that on one particular evening the McCanns and their friends changed their routine and all left early to go to elsewhere (Chaplins) - because they didn't  - it is a forum myth.     

This is true, the Tapas staff claimed they would leave between 23:00 and midnight.
Mrs McCann said they went back home at 23. Quite different of what Mrs Fenn said.
But the most curious is that they must have heard crying, since the crying stopped with the sliding of the door-window. Why didn't they admit this, instead of pretending it was all lie? At that point they didn't know that Mrs Fenn had heard crying from 10:30 on (she used to watch the news that finished at that time, perhaps the crying had started before).

[AnneGuedes]

But that is the night that Rachael Oldfield stayed at home all night in the apartment next door to the McCanns.  There is no way IMO that she would not have heard loud crying from next door for such a length of time as is claimed.

Yes, they heard the bathroom noises of each other and there was only a wall between Rachael bed and Madeleine pillow. Mrs Fenn was sure she wasn't home on that evening.

[AnneGuedes]

I know there is no way they would make such a statement that 'Neither the McCanns or the people who were with them are either suspects or persons of interest in this case'' if that wasn't the truth.   What would they lie?  Why would the Oporto team indicate the same?    Why not just say nothing?

To think otherwise is venturing so far into the 'Wishful thinking' zone as to qualify as '[ censored word ]s'  IMO.

One shouldn't forget which entity has the authority in this case. The fact the MP reopened the case is perhaps symbolical : the AG report, the only valid document up to now, says clearly that the nature of the crime couldn't be determined. SY's efforts can eventually lead to that determination and then, yes, the AG will have to produce another report.
DCI Redwood, though, hasn't yet found evidence to back up the only theory that he was asked to investigate.

[Sherlock Holmes]

One shouldn't forget which entity has the authority in this case. The fact the MP reopened the case is perhaps symbolical : the AG report, the only valid document up to now, says clearly that the nature of the crime couldn't be determined. SY's efforts can eventually lead to that determination and then, yes, the AG will have to produce another report.
DCI Redwood, though, hasn't yet found evidence to back up the only theory that he was asked to investigate.

Can you clarify what you mean by that, Anne?  Was DCI Redwood asked to investigate one particular theory only?

[Carana]

Totally wasting your time with that one Anne. I've raised the same point several times and it just keeps getting ignored. In this scenario somebody is without doubt deceiving the PJ so the next question is why? What do they stand to gain by hiding the truth?

Anne has a point. I don't think anyone is necessarily lying. Mrs Fenn heard increasingly louder crying and heard a patio door sliding. A child was then missing and I find it quite normal that she made a mental association that it could have been Madeleine. The police do ask for any information however irrelevant you think it might be and it's up to the police to sort it out and double-check, which seemingly didn't happen.

What I find quite plausible is that the increasingly louder sound could actually have been different children crying over the course of the evening (from apartments further away to possibly even the McCann apartment towards the end). Kate did say that Madeleine had woken up after midnight and had gone to their bedroom because Amelie was crying. The last child that she heard crying could have been Amelie if she'd got her timing out by just 15 mins. or so and she might have heard Madeleine calling to Daddy.

There is nothing to say that that is what happened in reality, but I find it a feasible alternative to assuming that anyone was deliberately misleading. If the police had questioned her earlier and more thoroughly, the issue might have been clarified.

[pathfinder73]

But that is the night that Rachael Oldfield stayed at home all night in the apartment next door to the McCanns.  There is no way IMO that she would not have heard loud crying from next door for such a length of time as is claimed.

This is TUE 1 MAY. Rachael stayed in on WED night. Russ stayed in on TUE.

"Kate McCanns mobile was next activated six times, in rapid fire, between 22.16 and 22.27, after she had returned to Apartment 5A after dinner. The antenna traffic proves that these calls were not made to any of the 'Tapas 9'. Mrs Fenn, the McCanns neighbour, reported that Madeleine had cried for her father between 22.30 and 23.45. The evidence shows that Kate McCann was in Apartment 5A 14 minutes before Madeleine started crying.Tuesday 1st May 2007 is the only night (except, of course, for Thursday 3rd May 2007) that either of the McCanns or any of their friends made calls after dinner."

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

[Redblossom]

What I find quite plausible is that the increasingly louder sound could actually have been different children crying over the course of the evening (from apartments further away to possibly even the McCann apartment towards the end).

What I find quite laughable and disingenous is your brazen exchanging Mrs Fenns testimony that the crying came from the floor below her flat to a notion that it was other kids many flats further away and possibly even the Mccanns flat! as IF that was the most unlikely scenario. Towards the end! yes well both theirs and Mrs Fenns were at the end! And no it wasnt kids, it was one chld

Youre better than Mitchell!

 

Eta and NO, sayng from the floor below does mean the flat below, it doesnt mean,oh, any old flat in the vicinity




nice try, NO cigar



 

[Benice]

Anne has a point. I don't think anyone is necessarily lying. Mrs Fenn heard increasingly louder crying and heard a patio door sliding. A child was then missing and I find it quite normal that she made a mental association that it could have been Madeleine. The police do ask for any information however irrelevant you think it might be and it's up to the police to sort it out and double-check, which seemingly didn't happen.

What I find quite plausible is that the increasingly louder sound could actually have been different children crying over the course of the evening (from apartments further away to possibly even the McCann apartment towards the end). Kate did say that Madeleine had woken up after midnight and had gone to their bedroom because Amelie was crying. The last child that she heard crying could have been Amelie if she'd got her timing out by just 15 mins. or so and she might have heard Madeleine calling to Daddy.

There is nothing to say that that is what happened in reality, but I find it a feasible alternative to assuming that anyone was deliberately misleading. If the police had questioned her earlier and more thoroughly, the issue might have been clarified.

Good points Carana  - Also - Jane Tanner may have returned to her apartment via her patio door at the end of the evening - on 1st May.    Why would she walk the long way round - walking past her apartment - up the road, and back across the carpark to go in through the front door  - when she could just nip up the pathway and go in through the patio doors?    So it could have been JT's patio door that Mrs Fenn heard opening - and it could have been her little girl who stopped crying.

But as you say - all this may well have been clarified if the PJ had interviewed Mrs Fenn as a matter of urgency after 3rd May.   A major oversight IMO that they didn't.     

 

[Redblossom]

Good points Carana  - Also - Jane Tanner may have returned to her apartment via her patio door at the end of the evening - on 1st May.    Why would she walk the long way round - walking past her apartment - up the road, and back across the carpark to go in through the front door  - when she could just nip up the pathway and go in through the patio doors?    So it could have been JT's patio door that Mrs Fenn heard opening

No, not really, if you read Tanners interview  they locked the front and back every single night....so its just assumption and speculation by you, not possiblities or facts

[Redblossom]

Pathetic twisting of events.

Sad but true

[Benice]

This is TUE 1 MAY. Rachael stayed in on WED night. Russ stayed in on TUE.

I know - I was responding to a post by Pegasus that there may have been a translation error and it could have been the 2nd May not the 1st that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying. 

[Carana]

What I find quite laughable and disingenous is your brazen exchanging Mrs Fenns testimony that the crying came from the floor below her flat to a notion that it was other kids many flats further away and possibly even the Mccanns flat! Towards the end! yes well both theirs and Mrs Fenns were at the end! And no it wasnt kids, it was one chld



 

Eta and NO, sayng from the floor below does mean the flat below, it doesnt mean,oh, any old flat in the vicinity




nice try, NO cigar



 

But there you are assuming that the floor below means the apartment below.

I have lived in a 20+ year-old building before and I know for a fact that sounds do not always come from where you think they do. The acoustics can be quite misleading.