A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?

[icabodcrane]

I'll repeat the question I asked earlier in this thread,  since it has not been addressed

When Matthew Oldfield returned from the OC reception KNOWING that the police had not been called,  did he tell the McCanns  ? 

Does anyone know  ?

Did he tell Kate and Gerry that although he had  asked  for the police to be called, the receptionist had not done so  ? 

[pegasus]

I'll repeat the question I asked earlier in this thread,  since it has not been addressed
When Matthew Oldfield returned from the OC reception KNOWING that the police had not been called,  did he tell the McCanns  ? 
Does anyone know  ?
Did he tell Kate and Gerry that although he had  asked  for the police to be called, the receptionist had not done so  ?

I don't know the answer to that. How soon after that did he see the parents? I assume he did tell GM, because later he and GM did go to reception to ask them again to call police (as it happens by then the receptionist had finally made the call to GNR).
IMO it is clear that staff of both companies were aware early on that a child was missing, therefore I think focusing all the critisism on the messenger is unfair. Why not pick on the dozens of staff/tourists/locals who were searching earlier than 10:41pm and none of whom called the police?

[Benice]

I'll repeat the question I asked earlier in this thread,  since it has not been addressed

When Matthew Oldfield returned from the OC reception KNOWING that the police had not been called,  did he tell the McCanns  ? 

Does anyone know  ?

Did he tell Kate and Gerry that although he had  asked  for the police to be called, the receptionist had not done so  ?

How can anyone answer that question Icab?  We only know a tiny fraction of what was being said to oneanother during those chaotic first 10/15 mins - with different people turning up at the scene by the minute.

It could be that the receptionist finally gave Matthew the impression that he would ring the police- and so Matthew then left  - believing that is what would happen.    It seems to me that the receptionist spoke to other employees first rather than calling the police.  Maybe they didn't feel able to do that without authorisation from John Hill, the Hotel Manager.   

One thing which is certain IMO is that Gerry believed the police had been called a lot earlier than they apparently were.

 

[icabodcrane]

How can anyone answer that question Icab?  We only know a tiny fraction of what was being said to oneanother during those chaotic first 10/15 mins - with different people turning up at the scene by the minute.

It could be that the receptionist finally gave Matthew the impression that he would ring the police- and so Matthew then left  - believing that is what would happen.    It seems to me that the receptionist spoke to other employees first rather than calling the police.  Maybe they didn't feel able to do that without authorisation from John Hill, the Hotel Manager.   

One thing which is certain IMO is that Gerry believed the police had been called a lot earlier than they apparently were.

Well I don't agree

Matthew Oldfield was   'sent'  by the McCanns to perform the most important function necessary at that point    ...  to get someone to ring the police 

The McCanns,   themselves,  were,  apparently otherwise occupied   (  ringing relatives  )

So they gave Oldfield the responsibility of ensuring the police were contacted

He comes back from reception  knowing  that the police have  NOT  been contacted  ...  the receptionist having convinced him that Madeleine may have wondered off and a more thorough search should be made  before  ringing the police

Are we to believe that Matthew Oldfield did not relay that to Kate and Gerry McCann  ?   

[icabodcrane]

I don't know the answer to that. How soon after that did he see the parents? I assume he did tell GM, because later he and GM did go to reception to ask them again to call police (as it happens by then the receptionist had finally made the call to GNR).
IMO it is clear that staff of both companies were aware early on that a child was missing, therefore I think focusing all the critisism on the messenger is unfair. Why not pick on the dozens of staff/tourists/locals who were searching earlier than 10:41pm and none of whom called the police?

I just think that ringing the police immediately ...  or demanding that someone else did, there and then , in their presence,  was Kate and Gerry McCann's responsibility

They never did that  ...  either of them 

Neither of them spoke to the police on the phone that night   

All those calls they made    ... and not one  of them was to the police

[Benice]

Well I don't agree

Matthew Oldfield was   'sent'  by the McCanns to perform the most important function necessary at that point    ...  to get someone to ring the police 

The McCanns,   themselves,  were,  apparently otherwise occupied   (  ringing relatives  )

So they gave Oldfield the responsibility of ensuring the police were contacted

He comes back from reception  knowing  that the police have  NOT  been contacted  ...  the receptionist having convinced him that Madeleine may have wondered off and a more thorough search should be made  before  ringing the police

Are we to believe that Matthew Oldfield did not relay that to Kate and Gerry McCann  ?

He knew the police had not been called while he was there - but after the discussion he had with the receptionist he could have assumed that the call was going to be made and so left.      Why is that so hard to believe - considering the circumstances - ie. panic, stress, anxiety, etc. 

Once again hindsight is being used unfairly IMO.

IIRC - The McCanns were not ringing relatives at that time.

[Benice]

I just think that ringing the police immediately ...  or demanding that someone else did, there and then , in their presence,  was Kate and Gerry McCann's responsibility

They never did that  ...  either of them 

Neither of them spoke to the police on the phone that night   

All those calls they made    ... and not one  of them was to the police

IIRC According to one of the GNR officers, they were asked to hurry up as the father had rung AGAIN.

[icabodcrane]

He knew the police had not been called while he was there - but after the discussion he had with the receptionist he could have assumed that the call was going to be made and so left.      Why is that so hard to believe - considering the circumstances - ie. panic, stress, anxiety, etc. 

Once again hindsight is being used unfairly IMO.

IIRC - The McCanns were not ringing relatives at that time.

That's just not the way Matthew Oldfield's rogatory statement reads Benice

He left the OC reception thinking that the receptionist  might be right  ...  that Madeleine may have wondered off and a more thorough search should be made before  contacting the police

He  KNEW  that the police would not be contacted  'until'  the missing child had, at least.  been looked   for first  ...  and he accepted that as being reasonable 

So did he relay that to Kate and Gerry McCann  ? 

He  MUST  have,  surely  ?   ...  why would he not  ?

[icabodcrane]

IIRC According to one of the GNR officers, they were asked to hurry up as the father had rung AGAIN.

Well  'recalling'  doesn't cut it

Where is the evidence that Gerry McCann spoke to the police on the phone that night  ?  ...  or that he directly   asked anyone   (  other than Matthew Oldfield  )  to do so  ?

In her book,  even Kate does not claim that either her,  or Gerry,  ever contacted the police themselves that night 

[Benice]

Well  'recalling'  doesn't cut it

Where is the evidence that Gerry McCann spoke to the police on the phone that night  ?  ...  or that he directly   asked anyone   (  other than Matthew Oldfield  )  to do so  ?

In her book,  even Kate does not claim that either her,  or Gerry,  ever contacted the police themselves that night

Well Icab you are keen to treat MO's statement as set in stone, but don't accept the statement of the GNR officer.   There's no answer to that.

As it happens I don't think Gerry spoke personally to the police - but was standing next to the person who did - and who could speak Portuguese -i.e. the receptionist - instructed by John Hill. 

TBH I don't understand what your problem is over this.   

(Nigh night )

[sadie]

That's just not the way Matthew Oldfield's rogatory statement reads Benice

He left the OC reception thinking that the receptionist  might be right  ...  that Madeleine may have wondered off and a more thorough search should be made before  contacting the police

He  KNEW  that the police would not be contacted  'until'  the missing child had, at least.  been looked   for first  ...  and he accepted that as being reasonable 

So did he relay that to Kate and Gerry McCann  ? 

He  MUST  have,  surely  ?   ...  why would he not  ?

Why are you so obsessed with this Icabod?

It is clear that Matt went by about 10.05 - 10.10 to the main reception to ask them to ring the police.  We have no idea whether he informed Gerry at the earliest stage that they had prevaricated a bit.  He had given his message and he obviously expected them to do their bit.

you really seem to have it in for Matt.  Why?


The main delay appears to have been with the Main Reception staff, but we dont know if they were following OC orders to not ring the police without senior staff permission ... do we?


What is the point that you are trying to get across Icabod?

From previous form, I think it is likely to be against The Mccanns and the other members of the Tapas group.  But on what grounds?  You seem to be getting at Matt particularly and maybe Gerry. 
Why?
I cant see anything that they have done wrong.



ETA.  Very well put Benice

Nigh night

[Eleanor]

I just think that ringing the police immediately ...  or demanding that someone else did, there and then , in their presence,  was Kate and Gerry McCann's responsibility

They never did that  ...  either of them 

Neither of them spoke to the police on the phone that night   

All those calls they made    ... and not one  of them was to the police

Ah.  That's it, is it?  You want to blame The McCanns for relying on help. As if all of the other blame isn't enough.  Let's put the boot in again.

Have you done a survey on how many parents of missing children actually phoned the police themselves?

[John]

Thanks to pathfinder 73 for reminding us of this fact.

And for the final time to everyone Fiona Payne asked Matt to go and call the police at 10.10 (NOT Gerry or Kate!). I don't know where Gerry asking him to do it comes from?

Fiona Payne

"Dave, erm, Matt, Russell and myself split up in four different directions just to do a search, you know, again assuming that she must have just wandered off.  Erm, tut, so, you know, I don’t know which way they went, but I, I went round the back of, erm, tut, well this way around the back of the apartments and round the back of the tennis courts on the main road and then cut down in front of the Baptista Supermarket and back up, that was the route I did. And by the time I got back everyone else had done their loop and at that point then no-one had seen Madeleine.  Erm, I remember saying to Matt at that point ‘You go down to main reception and phone the Police’.  Erm, and I, I don’t know what Matt, erm, I don’t know what Dave and Russell did at that point.  I said ‘I’m going to go up to the’, erm, ‘Kate and Gerry’s apartment’."
 
Matthew Oldfield

"Dave and Russell were just running off sort of shouting, so Fiona, I think, asked me to go and phone the Police."

Fiona tells Matt to go and phone the police at 10.10 and then goes into 5A where she finds Kate on her own with the twins. But where was Gerry?

[sadie]

The McCanns had the police called at 10.05 - 10.10 via their agents Matt and Ocean Club Reception.  They were not to know that Reception let them down and failed to make the necessary call at the time.

And Gerry personally went to Reception and this time they did call the Police.  I think that was about 10.30 but I am happy to be corrected on that time.



Why do you keep putting this disinformation about, Wspam, that The Mccanns didn't call the police?  They did and very early on initially, but were let down by their agent OC Reception.

Additionally OC reception had been warned VERY early on by one of the waiters, now was it Jeronimo?   I forget which one.


Maybe they were overloaded with new guests at that time?  Dunno ?  But what a let down for Madeleine.

[Wonderfulspam]

I have answered similar questions on thta subject asked by YOU, three times in roughly the past 24 hours

As for the time: 
The McCanns had the police called at 10.05 - 10.10 via their agents Matt and Ocean Club Reception.  They were not to know that Reception let them down and failed to make the necessary call at the time.

And Gerry personally went to Reception and this time they did call the Police.  I think that was about 10.30 but I am happy to be corrected on that time.



Why do you keep putting this disinformation about, Wspam, that The Mccanns didn't call the police?  They did and very early on initially, but were let down by their agent OC Reception.

Additionally OC reception had been warned VERY early on by one of the waiters, now was it Jeronimo?   I forget which one.


Maybe they were overloaded with new guests at that time?  Dunno ?  But what a let down for Madeleine.

It's not disinformation, the fact is that neither parent phoned the police.