A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?

[Miss Taken Identity]

First of all those were NOT kates initial words. 

Why put false but suspicious sounding words into her mouth?   Seems you are really keen to condemn her.


Secondly, who do you think made the main decisions in that family?  I think Gerry did and he couldn't get his head around what had happened initially.  He wanted Madeleine to have wandered.

And he knew that you dont go calling the police the minute your child disappears when, say, out shopping.  Having had a quick look in the near vicinity, the realisation of what likely might have happened sunk in.

That was the stage when he was anxious to get the Police.



I remember sending our daughter to Tours in France by bus at the age of 16.  She spoke good French.  Before she left, we fixed that the people that she was staying with would phone us the minute she arrived.  National Express timetable said that she would arrive at 10 minutes past midnight to be dropped off by the main railway station in Tours, which meant that we should have heard by about 12.30am.

My hubby was getting anxiuos well before that time and I kept saying, stay calm, the channel crossing boat could have been late etc etc.  Suddenly at about 1am I panicked along with my hubby and we rang the family to be told that they were in bed,  She hadn't come.  No bus had come and they had waited over 20 minutes. - so they returned home.

Please get back there quickly I said ... and, bless them, they did to find her waiting with a public schoolboy who hadn't paid his fare and had been thrown off the bus (thank goodness for our daughter having male company in that rather dubiuos spot!)

Turned out that National Express hadn't warned about the hour difference change and had given us the winter schedule rather than the new summer one


Now the point of this is.  One parent panicked almost too soon, whilst the other kept calm almost too long

I guess that hubby listened to me and on this occasion, and unusually so, I was the leader.



You guys are seeing things in this small delay that you shouldn't be.

If you watch videos of Kate, she really does say she knew right away Maddie was 'taken'- let's do her maths

One child left sleeping- door ajar-windows unjemmied-no whooshig curtains, all is well.

Kate presents herself in the apartment to 'check' and finds: slamming door- missing child-whooshing curtain-jemmied shutters... she thinks what?  Well she tells us what she 'knows', and you are all here to testify to her claims that Maddie was abducted and that the window was a form of entry or escape.


Sounds simple when you say it like that huh?

[sadie]

If you watch videos of Kate, she really does say she knew right away Maddie was 'taken'- let's do her maths

One child left sleeping- door ajar-windows unjemmied-no whooshig curtains, all is well.

Kate presents herself in the apartment to 'check' and finds: slamming door- missing child-whooshing curtain-jemmied shutters... she thinks what?  Well she tells us what she 'knows', and you are all here to testify to her claims that Maddie was abducted and that the window was a form of entry or escape.


Sounds simple when you say it like that huh?

Of course Kate would more or less know Madeleine had been taken.

-  Kate would be aware of what Madeleines capabilities re opening windows and shutters were, opening patio doors and safety gates also
- She was aware that Madeleine had a rousing voice and would have spotted them from the balcony and called them.
- Also would have wakened the twins before going off adventuring
- She saw Ccat left behind !!!  Ccat who went everywhere with Madeleine at night
- She saw cuddleblanket left behind
- She saw a window and shutter open that had ben left closed


Of course it wouldn't have taken Kate long to work out how Madeleine had vanished.  Any intelligent woman would soon work it out    but she still hoped against all hopes that she was mistaken.   That would be only natural ... and wanted to search locally.

[Brietta]

Of course Kate would more or less know Madeleine had been taken.

-  Kate would be aware of what Madeleines capabilities re opening windows and shutters were, opening patio doors and safety gates also
- She was aware that Madeleine had a rousing voice and would have spotted them from the balcony and called them.
- Also would have wakened the twins before going off adventuring
- She saw Ccat left behind !!!  Ccat who went everywhere with Madeleine at night
- She saw cuddleblanket left behind
- She saw a window and shutter open that had ben left closed


Of course it wouldn't have taken Kate long to work out how Madeleine had vanished.  Any intelligent woman would soon work it out    but she still hoped against all hopes that she was mistaken.   That would be only natural ... and wanted to search locally.

I cannot imagine the horror of the situation.

A child left sleeping in a ground floor apartment.

An open window.

An empty bed.

Only an imbecile would miss the significance of that.

Yet I hear them bleat ... why? why? why? didn't everyone call the police?  The police were called and arrived in time enough to set the procedures in motion for a missing child for it to make some difference to the outcome ... they didn't actually do that ... nor did they secure the scene of what might have been a crime.

As foreigners who did not speak Portuguese ... the logical ... the eminently sensible thing to do ... was to have a portuguese speaker make that call.
Why there should be any question about that escapes me ...

[pegasus]

... An open window.

An empty bed.

Only an imbecile would miss the significance of that...

Precisely.
The open window and the empty bed are directly connected.
Hearing and seeing the window being opened scared someone out of the bed.

I agree with you about the phonecall - it was more important to search at first.

[John]

Kate is constantly being castigated because she didn't shout from the balcony.  Another myth then.

Several waiters including Jose Baptiste and Ricardo Oliveira and nanny Charlotte Pennington all reported screams from the apartment balcony but these were after Kate had reported the disappearance to the tapas group. There seems to be a bit of confusion here but not a myth.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483715/Kate-McCann-DID-scream-Theyve-taken-claims-new-nanny-witness.html

[sadie]

Precisely.
The open window and the empty bed are directly connected.
Hearing and seeing the window being opened scared someone out of the bed.

I agree with you about the phonecall - it was more important to search at first.

I am sorry Pegasus, I agree with much that you say, but on this point I am inclined to disagree. 


Imo, all the children were given some sort of sleeping draft with, or before, their tea.  Madeleine, imo, was given a strong dose.  Reasons for this thought are
(1)  The exteme exhaustion of Madeleine that evening and one parent even had to carry her home
(2)  The way that it the twins slept thru all the noise after Madeleine was found missing... and even being transferred to another apartment on a cool blustery night without waking.

I doubt any of them heard the shutter and window being opened



I think the shutter and window were opened for several other probable reasons:

*  An escape route in emergency

*  For the actual lifter ( in case madeleine woke up, someone who she knew, probably an OC employee who had had contact with Madeleine) to converse with the man who took her away ... and I still think it likely that that man was Tannerman.  Also to pass stuff thru, like chloroform.

*  To dissipate any fumes afterwards

*  To watch for any parents coming along the road.  Despite thin moving foliage at the lower part of the street trees, the road was reasonably lit and moving figures would be seen

*  To Possibly give a little more light to the room or enable someone outside to shine a torch in

*  To deliberately obfuscate.  Throw the searchers off , by initially giving the impression that Madeleine had gone through the window of her own will.  To encourage people to search first, rather than call the Police immediately

*  To take the attention off the front door.   This was the most obvious way in and out, being so recessed, out of sight, dark and not passed by anyone.   Also to remove the obvious conclusions that people would make, that a staff member of OC was involved.

*  And then there are the Watchers and the pile of fag ends on the balcony opposite


I think that there is little doubt that this was an abduction.  SY seem to agree.





   Tin hat on, screen licking Stephens around. 

[Angelo222]

I was reading up on the statements by the tapas waiters and by the first nanny on the scene shortly after 10pm and without doubt Kate was in hysterics screaming like a banshee from the balcony.  In those circumstances I fail to understand why the twins weren't roused?

As for your comment Sadie that there is little doubt there was an abduction your judgement is sorely impaired.  It could very well be that nobody knows what happened to Maddie.  Its not the first time a youngster has fallen down a hole.

[sadie]

I was reading up on the statements by the tapas waiters and by the first nanny on the scene shortly after 10pm and without doubt Kate was in hysterics screaming like a banshee from the balcony.  In those circumstances I fail to understand why the twins weren't roused?

As for your comment Sadie that there is little doubt there was an abduction your judgement is sorely impaired.  It could very well be that nobody knows what happened to Maddie.  Its not the first time a youngster has fallen down a hole.

Ap[art from the obvious pointers to an abduction mentioned here, you are forgetting that I have done extraordinarily extensive research for the period after the abduction ....  and the pointers that I found showing what happened to Madeleine afterwards are mind blowing in their magnitude. 

I have been places and questioned people that none of you have even thought of



However, I still do not state definitely anything, but I am pretty sure


And,

Yep, sadie has good reason to feel smug

 *&*%£

[stephen25000]

Ap[art from the obvious pointers to an abduction mentioned here, you are forgetting that I have done extraordinarily extensive research for the period after the abduction ....  and the pointers that I found showing what happened to Madeleine afterwards are mind blowing in their magnitude. 

I have been places and questioned people that none of you have even thought of



However, I still do not state definitely anything, but I am pretty sure


And,

Yep, sadie has good reason to feel smug

 *&*%£

'Pointers' to abduction ?

There are more pointers to accidental death.

As to feeling 'smug', there is nothing to be smug about . &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+

[Brietta]

'Pointers' to abduction ?

There are more pointers to accidental death.

As to feeling 'smug', there is nothing to be smug about . &%&£(+ &%&£(+ &%&£(+

Do feel free to outline them, and the subsequent method used to dispose of the body.

[Brietta]

I was reading up on the statements by the tapas waiters and by the first nanny on the scene shortly after 10pm and without doubt Kate was in hysterics screaming like a banshee from the balcony.  In those circumstances I fail to understand why the twins weren't roused?

As for your comment Sadie that there is little doubt there was an abduction your judgement is sorely impaired.  It could very well be that nobody knows what happened to Maddie.  Its not the first time a youngster has fallen down a hole.

Any combination of the numerous pointers outlined by Sadie point to abduction. 

If Madeleine left the apartment of her own volition you will have to consider how she could have done so without leaving a trace.

(a) She was not wearing shoes
(b) She had never seen anyone opening the window or the shutter of her room
(c) Her fingerprints were not on the window or on the sill or on the shutter mechanism
(d) Her fingerprints were not on the front door
(e) Her fingerprints were not on the sliding patio door
(f) Her fingerprints were not on the gates

Do we even know if a three year old was capable of opening the doors or the window?  If so it is unlikely it could be done without leaving a trace.
An adult intruder on the other hand would take care he/she left no forensic evidence; however since the initial forensics lifted from the scene were useless we will never know if he/she was careful enough.

[pathfinder73]

I am sorry Pegasus, I agree with much that you say, but on this point I am inclined to disagree. 


Imo, all the children were given some sort of sleeping draft with, or before, their tea.  Madeleine, imo, was given a strong dose.  Reasons for this thought are
(1)  The exteme exhaustion of Madeleine that evening and one parent even had to carry her home
(2)  The way that it the twins slept thru all the noise after Madeleine was found missing... and even being transferred to another apartment on a cool blustery night without waking.

I doubt any of them heard the shutter and window being opened



I think the shutter and window were opened for several other probable reasons:

*  An escape route in emergency

*  For the actual lifter ( in case madeleine woke up, someone who she knew, probably an OC employee who had had contact with Madeleine) to converse with the man who took her away ... and I still think it likely that that man was Tannerman.  Also to pass stuff thru, like chloroform.

*  To dissipate any fumes afterwards

*  To watch for any parents coming along the road.  Despite thin moving foliage at the lower part of the street trees, the road was reasonably lit and moving figures would be seen

*  To Possibly give a little more light to the room or enable someone outside to shine a torch in

*  To deliberately obfuscate.  Throw the searchers off , by initially giving the impression that Madeleine had gone through the window of her own will.  To encourage people to search first, rather than call the Police immediately

*  To take the attention off the front door.   This was the most obvious way in and out, being so recessed, out of sight, dark and not passed by anyone.   Also to remove the obvious conclusions that people would make, that a staff member of OC was involved.

*  And then there are the Watchers and the pile of fag ends on the balcony opposite


I think that there is little doubt that this was an abduction.  SY seem to agree.





   Tin hat on, screen licking Stephens around. 

That could relate to the stain on WED. Twins knocked out the next night - Kate checking their breathing. Was something still in their system from the previous night? They will want to find the source of that stain. The large stain Kate tried to clean on the morning of her daughter's disappearance.

TUE crying / Kate's phone calls 10-15 to 10:30 / Kate/DP missing? / cot in parent's bedroom?
WED stain / late night out / DP check? / Kate in spare bed.
THUR - stain cleaned / no play area / DP visit / child gone.

[slartibartfast]

Ap[art from the obvious pointers to an abduction mentioned here, you are forgetting that I have done extraordinarily extensive research for the period after the abduction ....  and the pointers that I found showing what happened to Madeleine afterwards are mind blowing in their magnitude. 

I have been places and questioned people that none of you have even thought of



However, I still do not state definitely anything, but I am pretty sure


And,

Yep, sadie has good reason to feel smug

 *&*%£

Spill the beans, if you are never heard from again we will know you were right.

[sadie]

Spill the beans, if you are never heard from again we will know you were right.

No way.  I do not go around mentioning names as likely paedos.

I have had a number of threats Slarti ... including our car being shot at on the M5 ... but SY are aware of who might be behind the threats and he/they would be a bit foolish to try again ... using that method anyhow.



SY are aware of everything.  Sometimes I wonder if these people are too important to be apprehended.  Untouchables.

[stephen25000]

No way.  I do not go around mentioning names as likely paedos.

I have had a number of threats Slarti ... including our car being shot at on the M5 ... but SY are aware of who might be behind the threats and he/they would be a bit foolish to try again ... using that method anyhow.



SY are aware of everything.  Sometimes I wonder if these people are too important to be apprehended.  Untouchables.

What the FCUK ??