Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?

[Redblossom]

the shutters described as beng paritally open by inches as late as 11.30 by a policeman have nothng to do with anything

they had been lowered and raised and lowered again long before then

Bump

[Redblossom]

An opinion is a personal view that is based on fact. There has to be a factual element. Otherwise it's not an opinion - just a statement of little value.

Whatever you want to call it, SY and others do seem to be following a similar line of logic.

now that's juicy SH lol

Obviously opinions are based on some facts but it never makes the opinions fact! that's why they are two different words, ie fact and opinion


 

Sy are following what line of logic??

[sadie]

But what about at 10 pm (or thereabouts) when Kate came into the room?

Could a gust and a 'whoooosh' of the dramatic proportions she describes from just a few inches of open window?

I understand that it was indeed a chilly, somewhat blustery night. Do we know anything about wind direction and so on, in relation to the house and the window? Remember reading it on here somewhere...

I posted the climatic conditions at nearby Lagos and also at Faro.

Cant remember the details but I can remember that there were 20mph gusts at 10 pm... and that the weather was worsening.

The curtains looked very cheap and thin to me, and I would think in a gust such as mentioned above they may flutter and whoosh to a certain extent. I have no idea of the direction of the wind.  I dont think direction was mentioned.

Will see if I can find the details.

[sadie]

Here we go. 

Thread: Weather, Tides, Moon etc near PdL around the time of the abduction.

It is in four sections.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1986.msg63530#msg63530'

[pegasus]

3rd May 2007 approximate conditions IMO:
Sun set = 2022hrs
Moon rise = 2150hrs
Moon phase = 99% full.
Low Tide = 2200hrs
Av wind (Faro) =16km/h
Max wind (Faro) = 30km/h

Back to the PJ search - did the PJ in the early hours of 4th May actually search fully: (A) in the bag, (B) under the pile, (C) under the two beds (in same room as bag and pile)?
Three very silly questions you might think, unless you happen to have read a recent UK case, and an earlier USA case, in both cases police big error was to assume that their target was not inside the property and therefore did not bother searching inside the property fully.

[icabodcrane]

the shutters described as beng paritally open by inches as late as 11.30 by a policeman have nothng to do with anything

they had been lowered and raised and lowered again long before then

Quite right

It is pointless to debate the degree to which the blinds were raised when the police arrived,  given that the McCanns admit Gerry had tampered with them before the police were even called 

[Admin]

Gerry stated the shutter was fully raised and he saw it just after Kate reported Madeleine gone.

[icabodcrane]

Gerry stated the shutter was fully raised and he saw it just after Kate reported Madeleine gone.

He also said   (  in his first statement ) that the curtains were open   too  ...  as did Kate

They changed their minds about that later though

[pegasus]

Re how complete are police searches of property where a child is missing from.
1. Detroit, June 2012: a 17 month old child is reported missing. Police search the property but fail to find her that day.
2. South London, August 2012:  a 12 year old child is reported missing. Police search the property but fail to find her that day nor during several following days.
If at the time, in either of those cases, you or me had claimed "oh I bet what they are looking for is still inside the property and the police searches inside the property missed it" we would have been laughed off the forum.
Wrongly laughed off, as it happens, for it was the correct solution in both those cases.

[colombosstogey]

But what about at 10 pm (or thereabouts) when Kate came into the room?

Could a gust and a 'whoooosh' of the dramatic proportions she describes from just a few inches of open window?

I understand that it was indeed a chilly, somewhat blustery night. Do we know anything about wind direction and so on, in relation to the house and the window? Remember reading it on here somewhere...

Blustery suggests strong winds, yet on a the video by BBC etc, it shows a calm normal night even not cold as no one was wearing jumpers or jackets. I have been on holiday in europe end of March/April and its flipping freezing at night, and no way would anyone be sat with T shirts on or carrying children through streets without blankets at least or coats.

IF the wind was going to whoosh it would have done the minute the patio door was opened as it creates a VACUUM....so she would have heard the door slam before she set foot into the apartment, the same with any other errrr checker of children.

[Mr Gray]

Gerry stated the shutter was fully raised and he saw it just after Kate reported Madeleine gone.

Gerry also says that he closed the shutters and then went outside to see if they could be raised from the outside

[Mr Gray]

Quite right

It is pointless to debate the degree to which the blinds were raised when the police arrived,  given that the McCanns admit Gerry had tampered with them before the police were even called

you don't look at things objectively but try to make the facts fit in with your ideas...the use of the words admit and tampered are totally the wrong words to use here but you use them to try and strengthen your very weak case

[Benice]

3rd May 2007 approximate conditions IMO:
Sun set = 2022hrs
Moon rise = 2150hrs
Moon phase = 99% full.
Low Tide = 2200hrs
Av wind (Faro) =16km/h
Max wind (Faro) = 30km/h

Back to the PJ search - did the PJ in the early hours of 4th May actually search fully: (A) in the bag, (B) under the pile, (C) under the two beds (in same room as bag and pile)?
Three very silly questions you might think, unless you happen to have read a recent UK case, and an earlier USA case, in both cases police big error was to assume that their target was not inside the property and therefore did not bother searching inside the property fully.

As far as I know the beds were divans - and so there was no 'underneath' to speak of.

[sadie]

As far as I know the beds were divans - and so there was no 'underneath' to speak of.

Madeleines bed and presumably its twin is the same.  No space under there.

[Estuarine]

Well this is what "bent d**o Officer Roque" thought of it.

Then, while his colleague remained in the hall, and the others were in the living room, the witness went through the entire apartment. He opened all the cupboards in the bedrooms, living room and kitchen and checked under the beds and inside the washing machine. He did not see the fridge.
During the search he did not find anything strange apart from the bedclothes on Madeleine's bed, which were too tidy, it appeared that she had been picked up from or had left the bed with great care.
When questioned about the windows in the bedroom, he only remembers that the window in the girl's bedroom was closed with the blind raised up the space of the width of a hand. He does not remember the existence of curtains. The father indicated, through the translator, alleging that when the disappearance was discovered, the windows and blinds were open.

Whatever happened to the crow bar?