Author Topic: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?  (Read 76575 times)

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Offline slartibartfast

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #300 on: March 19, 2014, 11:41:07 AM »
8@??)(

Such a sensible answer,

But if some people are determined NOT to believe there was an abduction, and that the Mccanns "Dunit", NOTHING would convince them ... even that, I fear, Carana.

I would welcome hard evidence either way, however, on the available intelligence, the balance of probability does not point to an abduction.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Angelo222

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #301 on: March 19, 2014, 11:49:16 AM »
Let's hope so Angelo.  But an abducted child is an abducted child, whether in PT or Timbuktu.  8(8-))

I agree but the point I was making was that after Madeleine things appeared to have gone quiet in the Algarve except for the odd copy cat case like the Carolina Santos fiasco.  Poor little Madeleine gave up her life to help others in a way of speaking.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 11:51:19 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline LagosBen

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #302 on: March 19, 2014, 02:31:59 PM »
How will Luz and co explain this latest news away?

Offline VIXTE

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #303 on: March 19, 2014, 03:14:50 PM »
How will Luz and co explain this latest news away?

They would say it never happened or ignore it as if it was never announced..
 8)--))
Not a word from JM.. although it was reported in CM..

I think they are currently looking at ways how to make AW sound incompetent..
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 03:16:27 PM by VIXTE »

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #304 on: March 19, 2014, 06:56:25 PM »
I agree but the point I was making was that after Madeleine things appeared to have gone quiet in the Algarve except for the odd copy cat case like the Carolina Santos fiasco.  Poor little Madeleine gave up her life to help others in a way of speaking.
I guess by that you mean her normal life?

Carolina Santos was well before Madeleine.  In December 2006  before the May 2007.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #305 on: March 19, 2014, 06:58:34 PM »
Could be the abductors have moved on to a quieter location because of all the ruckus in Portugal after May 2007.  We will never know for sure but it could be that Madeleine's disappearance and the publicity which followed it saved many other children from the same fate.

Quite possibly - in the Algarve. If it was some casual labourer /employee / busker / whatever who could move elsewhere and is still at large somewhere, other children could be at risk elsewhere. On the other hand, someone could also currently be in jail somewhere for unrelated offences.

In the MariLuz case (Spain), the guy should have been in jail, but somehow the authorities lost his trace, then he moved again just after her disappearance.

In the Dickinson case (France), it was by sheer coincidence that a US immigration officer read the story in a UK paper and discovered that that guy was in prison in Miami for other offences. He had apparently carried out a variety of offences in several countries.

Offline Mr Moderator

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #306 on: April 23, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
Sadie.  There is already a thread devoted to the disappearance of children in Portugal.

Just some of the disappeared.


Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared in 1991.

Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared in 1994.

Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11, disappeared in 1998.

Rui Periera, aged 13, disappeared in 1999.



« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 04:47:39 PM by Mr Moderator »

Offline Davel

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #307 on: April 23, 2014, 05:21:19 PM »
Sadie.  There is already a thread devoted to the disappearance of children in Portugal.

Just some of the disappeared.


Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared in 1991.

Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared in 1994.

Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11, disappeared in 1998.

Rui Periera, aged 13, disappeared in 1999.




Please note that none of these have been taken by an estranged parent

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #308 on: April 24, 2014, 12:26:54 PM »
I think it is well worth repeating this post originally posted by Sadie.



Pre pubescent children (under 15 y.o.) in mainland Portugal disappeared / possibly stranger abducted.

Note
BLUE represents the north mainly in and to the north of Porto
RED represents the south around PdL



The disappearances and possible abductions started seriously in the north of PT, in the area of Porto and north of there, spreading towards Guimares in an easterly direction.

1.  1991 Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared from the Masserelos district of Porto.



2.  1994  Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared from Oleiros, Vila Verde, Braga. Believed to have been taken by two men and forced to get inside a car.



 
3.  1996  Rene Hasee (German boy on holiday), aged 6, disappeared from Amoreiras beach, Aljezur, [Atlantic] Algarve .. (approx 18 miles PdL)




4.  1998  Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11 or 12, taken from Lousada, Porto. It is now believed that this child was taken abroad and is in the hands of a paedophile network.



5.  1999  Rui Periera, aged 13 or 14, from Vila Nova de Famalicao, Braga.  Believed seen in Switzerland with two Italian men.




On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC.

The abductions ceased in 1999, after the warning,  for 5 years.   Except for in Madeira IIRC, but here I think the father sold his child.

They started up again in the Algarve near PdL. after the 5 Year gap.


6.  2004  Joana Cipriano, aged 7 or 8, disappeared from Figueira, Algarve (7 miles from PdL). Mother and uncle convicted of murder but body has never been found.



7.  Xmas day 2006,  Carolina Santos, aged 3, attempted abduction from near Silves (approx 18 miles from  PdL).  Parents came out of cafe to find Carolina being led away by a man.



8.  May 2007,  Madeleine McCann, aged nearly 4, disappeared from holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, while her parents dined nearby.





I have not included Titania/ Odete Freeman, aged about 3, who was passed around via three parts of the family and had three different names.  No-one knew what had happened to her, including which part of the family she was with when she vanished, according to reports.  Later they said she had died in an accident in Spain .


I am not aware of any newer cases but I haven't been searching for the past 4 or 5 years.


Please note that all the northern disappearances were clustered within an area of no more that about 32 miles across in Porto and to the north  and east of there

All the southern disappearances, including Rene Hasee, were clustered within an area of about 25 miles across with the centre being near PdL

.... and there is approximately 300 miles between the two clusters.


NO other cases in the relevant age group anywhere else in mainland Portugal ... just in the two clusters only and 300 miles apart



[This post has been edited in terms of the forum policy on publishing factual information]
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #309 on: April 24, 2014, 12:42:33 PM »
THank you, Mr Moderator and thankyou John

On average every eighteen months to two years a child disappeared.  If what appears to be true is correct, then the abductors  Modus Operandii changed after the five year break + the elite apaprantly being picked up but released with a warning..
It changed from basically being in the North around Porto and Guimares to the western Algarve in the south 300 miles awy.

It also changed from being quite few boys with only one 7 year old girl to being all girls ... and mainly younger children ... but there were youngish children in the 1990's too. 


Now I must get on.  Please excuse me.

Joana is a pretty girl, John.  The photo shown above doesn't do her justice and is of a very young Joana




Haven't time atm to go scrabbling around for a better, more recent photo

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #310 on: April 24, 2014, 12:50:59 PM »
I think it is well worth repeating this post originally posted by Sadie.



Pre pubescent children (under 15 y.o.) in mainland Portugal disappeared / possibly stranger abducted.

Note
BLUE represents the north mainly in and to the north of Porto
RED represents the south around PdL



The disappearances and possible abductions started seriously in the north of PT, in the area of Porto and north of there, spreading towards Guimares in an easterly direction.

1.  1991 Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared from the Masserelos district of Porto.



2.  1994  Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared from Oleiros, Vila Verde, Braga. Believed to have been taken by two men and forced to get inside a car.



 
3.  1996  Rene Hasee (German boy on holiday), aged 6, disappeared from Amoreiras beach, Aljezur, [Atlantic] Algarve .. (approx 18 miles PdL)




4.  1998  Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11 or 12, taken from Lousada, Porto. It is now believed that this child was taken abroad and is in the hands of a paedophile network.



5.  1999  Rui Periera, aged 13 or 14, from Vila Nova de Famalicao, Braga.  Believed seen in Switzerland with two Italian men.




On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC.

The abductions ceased in 1999, after the warning,  for 5 years.   Except for in Madeira IIRC, but here I think the father sold his child.

They started up again in the Algarve near PdL. after the 5 Year gap.


6.  2004  Joana Cipriano, aged 7 or 8, disappeared from Figueira, Algarve (7 miles from PdL). Mother and uncle convicted of murder but body has never been found.



7.  Xmas day 2006,  Carolina Santos, aged 3, attempted abduction from near Silves (approx 18 miles from  PdL).  Parents came out of cafe to find Carolina being led away by a man.



8.  May 2007,  Madeleine McCann, aged nearly 4, disappeared from holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, while her parents dined nearby.





I have not included Titania/ Odete Freeman, aged about 3, who was passed around via three parts of the family and had three different names.  No-one knew what had happened to her, including which part of the family she was with when she vanished, according to reports.  Later they said she had died in an accident in Spain .


I am not aware of any newer cases but I haven't been searching for the past 4 or 5 years.


Please note that all the northern disappearances were clustered within an area of no more that about 32 miles across in Porto and to the north  and east of there

All the southern disappearances, including Rene Hasee, were clustered within an area of about 25 miles across with the centre being near PdL

.... and there is approximately 300 miles between the two clusters.


NO other cases in the relevant age group anywhere else in mainland Portugal ... just in the two clusters only and 300 miles apart



[This post has been edited in terms of the forum policy on publishing factual information]

I think there should be  new forum rule about not encouraging delusions.


Can you please remove Joana and Caroline from the list as I find the using a murdered little girl and a complete fabrication (in Carolina's case) to forward Sadie's bizarre fantasies offensive.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #311 on: April 24, 2014, 01:03:58 PM »
I think there should be  new forum rule about not encouraging delusions.


Can you please remove Joana and Caroline from the list as I find the using a murdered little girl and a complete fabrication (in Carolina's case) to forward Sadie's bizarre fantasies offensive.

I disagree about Joana as there is no concrete evidence that she ever even got back home.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:05:31 PM by Carana »

Offline Benice

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #312 on: April 24, 2014, 01:19:15 PM »
I disagree about Joana as there is no concrete evidence that she ever even got back home.

I disagree too because inspite of the fact that torture at the PJ police station was proved -  and the motive  for murder as claimed by the PJ was thrown out by the court -  there wasn't even a retrial! .....let alone an admission that an almighty miscarriage of justice may have occurred.    Unbelievable! 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #313 on: April 24, 2014, 01:20:15 PM »

But her mother confessed, that's good enough for me.

The bitch murdered her, get over it.
"Ich wette, die Eltern haben es geschafft" (Mich)

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #314 on: April 24, 2014, 01:39:55 PM »
But her mother confessed, that's good enough for me.

The bitch murdered her, get over it.

John seems to feel the same way as you.

I don't.

There is nothing beyond a reconstruction in dubious circumstances presented in court. The defendants were poor, with little education and had a meagre pro-bono defence. There were "confessions" (inadmissible in court, but in equally dubious circumstances). That seems to be all that is required to get a life sentence.

Joana may indeed be dead, but she may not be.

No one was looking for the third girl in the US case...