Author Topic: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?  (Read 76573 times)

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Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #315 on: April 24, 2014, 01:40:58 PM »
John seems to feel the same way as you.

I don't.

There is nothing beyond a reconstruction in dubious circumstances presented in court. The defendants were poor, with little education and had a meagre pro-bono defence. There were "confessions" (inadmissible in court, but in equally dubious circumstances). That seems to be all that is required to get a life sentence.

Joana may indeed be dead, but she may not be.

No one was looking for the third girl in the US case...

Her mum didn't confess to killing her either.
"Ich wette, die Eltern haben es geschafft" (Mich)

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #316 on: April 24, 2014, 01:45:29 PM »
But her mother confessed, that's good enough for me.

The bitch murdered her, get over it.

So, if a child close to you had disappeared on holiday, I should just accept that you were responsible if half-myths in that direction had been leaked to the tabloids?

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #317 on: April 24, 2014, 01:51:19 PM »
So, if a child close to you had disappeared on holiday, I should just accept that you were responsible if half-myths in that direction had been leaked to the tabloids?

No, you should always judge by gut instinct & irrational hatred of others.

A method that hasn't failed me yet.
"Ich wette, die Eltern haben es geschafft" (Mich)

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #318 on: April 24, 2014, 01:56:41 PM »
The title of this thread is child abduction in Portugal.

As both Carolina and Joana were abducted I find no reason not to include them.

For the benefit of new readers though I will add the following...

Carolina Santos was playing in the street outside her parents cafe when she was abducted/led away by a Moroccan man who was known to villagers as a troublemaker.  He didn't get far as Carolina's father came out of their cafe and saw her being led off.  The perpetrator later said he did it to teach Mr Santos a lesson following an earlier argument.  An abduction but one which fortunately only lasted a few moments.

Joana Cipriano disappeared while on an errand to the shops, she has never been seen since.  Her mother and uncle later confessed to being involved and were in due course convicted of abduction and murder.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=71.0
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 02:00:24 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #319 on: April 24, 2014, 02:14:53 PM »
The title of this thread is child abduction in Portugal.

As both Carolina and Joana were abducted I find no reason not to include them.

For the benefit of new readers though I will add the following...

Carolina Santos was playing in the street outside her parents cafe when she was abducted/led away by a Moroccan man who was known to villagers as a troublemaker.  He didn't get far as Carolina's father came out of their cafe and saw her being led off.  The perpetrator later said he did it to teach Mr Santos a lesson following an earlier argument.  An abduction but one which fortunately only lasted a few moments.

Joana Cipriano disappeared while on an errand to the shops, she has never been seen since.  Her mother and uncle later confessed to being involved and were in due course convicted of abduction and murder.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?board=71.0

When was Joana abducted? I don't know a great deal about the case, admittedly, but I thought she was murdered at home?

Edit:

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2990.0

They weren't accused of abduction.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 02:18:32 PM by Cariad »

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #320 on: April 24, 2014, 02:20:49 PM »
When was Joana abducted? I don't know a great deal about teh case, admittedly, but I thought she was murdered at home?

Edit:

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2990.0

They weren't accused of abduction.

According to the last Deposition made by Leonor Cipriano (Joana's mother), she claims to now tell the whole truth, she states that it was the girl's uncle who abducted her in a failed attempt to sell her to foreigners. The uncle for his part has not disputed this version.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 02:32:43 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #321 on: April 24, 2014, 02:30:58 PM »
No, you should always judge by gut instinct & irrational hatred of others.

A method that hasn't failed me yet.

Now that you've reminded me of that... some people couldn't work out the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician.

I hope that you weren't one of them.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #322 on: April 24, 2014, 02:35:06 PM »
Now that you've reminded me of that... some people couldn't work out the difference between a paedophile and a paediatrician.

I hope that you weren't one of them.

No, I remember that.  She had paedo painted on her house by a baying mob of dyslexics.


In 2001, a special was released. It tackled paedophilia and the moral panic in parts of the British media following the murder of Sarah Payne, focusing on the name-and-shame campaign conducted by the News of the World in its wake. This included an incident in 2000 in which a paediatrician in Newport had the word "PAEDO" daubed in yellow paint on her home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_Eye
"Ich wette, die Eltern haben es geschafft" (Mich)

Offline sadie

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #323 on: April 24, 2014, 10:37:40 PM »
I would welcome hard evidence either way, however, on the available intelligence, the balance of probability does not point to an abduction.
In YOUR opinion, but not in the opinion of the Authorities, or the majority of thinking people.  Not one person that I know, who is a thinking person, believes that the Mccanns had anything to do with it.

But carry on .............

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #324 on: April 25, 2014, 11:14:19 AM »
In YOUR opinion, but not in the opinion of the Authorities, or the majority of thinking people.  Not one person that I know, who is a thinking person, believes that the Mccanns had anything to do with it.

But carry on .............

I have not found that to be true but then that depends on your definition of a 'thinking person'?  >@@(*&)
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #325 on: April 25, 2014, 01:27:11 PM »
In YOUR opinion, but not in the opinion of the Authorities, or the majority of thinking people.  Not one person that I know, who is a thinking person, believes that the Mccanns had anything to do with it.

But carry on .............

Ask the dogs Sadie.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Carana

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #326 on: April 25, 2014, 01:37:50 PM »
When was Joana abducted? I don't know a great deal about the case, admittedly, but I thought she was murdered at home?

Edit:

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2990.0

They weren't accused of abduction.

Hmmm. No. But there is nothing concrete to prove what actually happened to this child. The case was wound up in a few days when the big boots from Faro took over the case, with no evidence whatsoever aside from "confessions" in dubious circumstances. No forensics... nothing.

There is a sub-forum on that case on here.

I'm aware of several cases in which family members were eventually found to have been responsible for a child's death and masked it as an abduction. These cases happen and I wasn't born yesterday. However, in this case, I haven't found anything concrete to convince me that either her mother or her uncle were guilty.


Offline Brietta

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #327 on: April 25, 2014, 06:32:16 PM »
I don’t think the incidence of child abduction is any more prevalent in Portugal than anywhere else.

The geographical location of Portugal makes it a portal both in and out to a wider European market for anyone with criminal intent. 

I imagine it is very difficult and dangerous to police its borders.
It takes a bit of bravery to attempt to thwart Colombian and other South American drug traffickers. http://diariodigital.sapo.pt/news.asp?id_news=689455 

People trafficking and slavery is as prevalent throughout the world as it has ever been and I think its extent is unknown to the general public as much in Britain as it is in Portugal and Europe. 
Organised crime and corruption seems to be at the root of it all.
 
The Protection Project - Portugal [DOC]
The Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS), The Johns Hopkins University
www.protectionproject.org/human_rights_reports/report_documents/portugal.doc
[accessed 2009]

FORMS OF TRAFFICKING - Women are trafficked to Portugal for prostitution.
In 2001, Brazilian authorities investigated possible Brazilian police involvement in a smuggling ring that sent Brazilian women to Spain and Portugal, where they were forced into prostitution.
Authorities believed that the operation, which involved mostly minors, was tied to the mafia on the Iberian Peninsula.
An estimated 500 Brazilian women were victims of the ring.

All material used herein reproduced under the fair use exception of 17 USC § 107 for noncommercial, nonprofit, and educational use.  PLEASE RESPECT COPYRIGHTS OF COMPONENT ARTICLES.  Cite this webpage as: Patt, Prof. Martin, "Child Prostitution - Portugal", http://gvnet.com/childprostitution/Portugal.htm, [accessed <date>]
http://www.gvnet.com/childprostitution/Portugal.htm

There is no doubt that mystery surrounds the death of Jacinta Rees who the police said committed suicide by hitting herself on the head several times with an axe.  Certainly wouldn’t be my chosen method of killing myself if it is even possible.

Crime theory
One theory about Jacinta's death was that she found out something that cost her life.
The area where she lived is a trafficking route from North Africa and the Middle East for the illegal trade in drugs - mostly hashish - and also in stolen children.

The village of Sao Bras de Alportel is 30km from the resort of Praia de Luz where British child Maddy McCann disappeared.

Her family said child smuggling was an issue Jacinta was concerned about and might have spoken up about.

"Jacinta may have stumbled across something," brother Cameron said.

"She left a note for someone saying she was leaving and she did not know how things would work out and asked that they forgive her, but the police construed it as a suicide note," he said.

"It wasn't a suicide note - she was scared of something. 
http://www.news.com.au/national/jacinta-rees-murdered-covered-up-by-portugal-police/story-e6frfkx0-1225942761917
The remit of Operation Grange is to investigate ...  "(as if the abduction occurred in the UK)"

Offline Luz

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #328 on: April 27, 2014, 11:47:29 AM »
There is without doubt a history of child disappearances on the Algarve going back many years.  I have purposely not used the abduction label since abduction has not been proven in several of the cases such as René Hasée (6) - probably the only case of abduction in south Alentejo Coast, not Algarve. Joana Cipriano (8) - MURDERED by mother & uncle and Madeleine McCann (almost 4).   There is also an alarming number of reports of British children, mainly girls, being targeted. WHERE ARE THE REPORTS?!

Some people choose to disregard these reports referring to them as Maddie hype, bogus, fantasy and the such like.  Whatever ones views are, there is without doubt something sinister going on which the Portuguese authorities appear unable or unwilling to stop.

Please discuss.



Pre pubescent children (under 15 y.o.) in mainland Portugal disappeared / possibly stranger abducted.

Note
BLUE represents the north mainly in and to the north of Porto
RED represents the south around PdL



The disappearances and possible abductions started seriously in the north of PT, in the area of Porto and north of there, spreading towards Guimares in an easterly direction.

1.  1991 Jorge Sepulveda, aged 14, disappeared from the Masserelos district of Porto.



2.  1994  Claudia Silva e Sousa, aged 7, disappeared from Oleiros, Vila Verde, Braga. Believed to have been taken by two men and forced to get inside a car.



 
3.  1996  Rene Hasee (German boy on holiday), aged 6, disappeared from Amoreiras beach, Aljezur, [Atlantic] Algarve .. (approx 18 miles PdL)




4.  1998  Rui Pedro Mendonca, aged 11 or 12, taken from Lousada, Porto. It is now believed that this child was taken abroad and is in the hands of a paedophile network.



5.  1999  Rui Periera, aged 13 or 14, from Vila Nova de Famalicao, Braga.  Believed seen in Switzerland with two Italian men.




On the internet I read on a forum that the son of an elite had been picked up by the PJ  in the north [and ?charged?]  but released with a warning.  That was whitewashed out after I mentioned it on forum.  A friend, Catkins, also saw another mention in a somewhat similar vein.  She can no longer find her reference either, IIRC.

The abductions ceased in 1999, after the warning,  for 5 years.   Except for in Madeira IIRC, but here I think the father sold his child.

They started up again in the Algarve near PdL. after the 5 Year gap.


6.  2004  Joana Cipriano, aged 7 or 8, disappeared from Figueira, Algarve (7 miles from PdL). Mother and uncle convicted of murder but body has never been found.



7.  Xmas day 2006,  Carolina Santos, aged 3, attempted abduction from near Silves (approx 18 miles from  PdL).  Parents came out of cafe to find Carolina being led away by a man. PROVEN FALSE ALERT by GNR in 2006



8.  May 2007,  Madeleine McCann, aged nearly 4, disappeared from holiday apartment at Ocean Club, Praia da Luz, while her parents dined nearby.





I have not included Titania/ Odete Freeman, aged about 3, who was passed around via three parts of the family and had three different names.  No-one knew what had happened to her, including which part of the family she was with when she vanished, according to reports.  Later they said she had died in an accident in Spain .


I am not aware of any newer cases but I haven't been searching for the past 4 or 5 years.


Please note that all the northern disappearances were clustered within an area of no more that about 32 miles across in Porto and to the north  and east of there

All the southern disappearances, including Rene Hasee, were clustered within an area of about 25 miles across with the centre being near PdL

.... and there is approximately 300 miles between the two clusters.


NO other cases in the relevant age group anywhere else in mainland Portugal ... just in the two clusters only and 300 miles apart



[This post has been edited in terms of the forum policy on publishing factual information]

When you imply other children were abducted or there were attempts then you must prove you words with, at least, dates and places where charges were made to the authorities.

Offline John

Re: Child abduction in Portugal and beyond - is it really so prevalent?
« Reply #329 on: April 27, 2014, 01:48:39 PM »
When you imply other children were abducted or there were attempts then you must prove you words with, at least, dates and places where charges were made to the authorities.

I put your failure to comprehend my post down to the language barrier.  The opening comment clearly indicates that the children are disappeared and may not necessarily have been abducted.  That said however the general consensus would be that in most cases they were abducted.

If you seek proof then I'm afraid you will have to ask the Portuguese Police since it is they who investigated the cases.

PS  This forum does not take sides contrary to your removed post.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.