Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?

[pathfinder73]

again it shows how unreliable witness recall is ...

It's very easy to rectify. You find out the witnesses who actually knew the time and didn't just guess. Then you collect those witnesses and see who is way out with their time keeping. Those persons are possible suspects right away. People who lie about the time and knew it are possibly hiding something or trying to get an alibi.

The waiter (who served the thin steak) and Russ said he returned to the table at 9:45 (only a few bites taken when the alarm was raised). Matt said Kate left to check at 9:50. Gerry said it was exactly 10:03. That's a good starting point.

"It being 22h03, he turned to alert KATE that it was time for her to go to see the children." (GM)

[Alfred R Jones]

We used to say 'what did your last servant die of' when I was young. May I suggest you read the link and then you'll know.

You seem to be missing the point.  I don't need to read the link to know.  Are you of the view that it is impossible to arrive at a consensus view of the time that Kate raised the alarm because one witness has it at 9.20pm and another at 10.13pm (despite the fact that the majority have it at around 10pm)?  Is there perhaps a reluctance amongst 'sceptics' to concur with the "around 10pm" consensus as stated in the Final Report, as refusing to do so provides the necessary flexibility to shoehorn in all sorts of daft theories?  Just a thought...

[G-Unit]

You seem to be missing the point.  I don't need to read the link to know.  Are you of the view that it is impossible to arrive at a consensus view of the time that Kate raised the alarm because one witness has it at 9.20pm and another at 10.13pm (despite the fact that the majority have it at around 10pm)?  Is there perhaps a reluctance amongst 'sceptics' to concur with the "around 10pm" consensus as stated in the Final Report, as refusing to do so provides the necessary flexibility to shoehorn in all sorts of daft theories?  Just a thought...

I get the point perfectly thank you. I haven't seen that in the Final Report I'm afraid. Please could you provide a quote or link?

[Brietta]

I get the point perfectly thank you. I haven't seen that in the Final Report I'm afraid. Please could you provide a quote or link?

I think at least fifty angels would be able to dance on the head of a pin at the same time ... wonder if our Irish teenager has a take on that?

[Carana]

Did I quote a Sunday Times article?

No. Did you have another source for that?

[G-Unit]

No. Did you have another source for that?

I didn't give a source because I don't like to quote the press. That's why I used words like 'alleged' and 'supposed'. I was using a source to find the rumours which wasn't sued as far as I know, however;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2478087/Why-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-E-fits-kept-secret-5-years.html

[Carana]

I didn't give a source because I don't like to quote the press. That's why I used words like 'alleged' and 'supposed'. I was using a source to find the rumours which wasn't sued as far as I know, however;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2478087/Why-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-E-fits-kept-secret-5-years.html

Thanks for that. However, it seems to be based on "The investigator told a Sunday newspaper..."

[faithlilly]

You seem to be missing the point.  I don't need to read the link to know.  Are you of the view that it is impossible to arrive at a consensus view of the time that Kate raised the alarm because one witness has it at 9.20pm and another at 10.13pm (despite the fact that the majority have it at around 10pm)?  Is there perhaps a reluctance amongst 'sceptics' to concur with the "around 10pm" consensus as stated in the Final Report, as refusing to do so provides the necessary flexibility to shoehorn in all sorts of daft theories?  Just a thought...

Wouldn't 10.13pm be considered 'around 10pm' ?

[G-Unit]

Thanks for that. However, it seems to be based on "The investigator told a Sunday newspaper..."

i know, which is why i didn't link to it. My main point was that we don't know where the efits came from. Then someone asked if they were given to the McCanns before the PJ investigation was archived as they wouldn't have been able to hand them to the PJ if it was after. I therefore tried to give a brief overview of the chain of events; Oakley engaged, case archived, book written etc. My other point was that the UK media would have been happy to publicise the efits even if the investigation had been archived. We still don't know if the McCann's even looked at them or  if they ever had them.

[pathfinder73]

i know, which is why i didn't link to it. My main point was that we don't know where the efits came from. Then someone asked if they were given to the McCanns before the PJ investigation was archived as they wouldn't have been able to hand them to the PJ if it was after. I therefore tried to give a brief overview of the chain of events; Oakley engaged, case archived, book written etc. My other point was that the UK media would have been happy to publicise the efits even if the investigation had been archived. We still don't know if the McCann's even looked at them or  if they ever had them.

After the investigation was closed in Summer 2008 they asked again. Kennedy did it once at the start of 2008 but the case was still open so Martin Smith refused. When it was closed he then agreed IMO.

[Alfred R Jones]

Wouldn't 10.13pm be considered 'around 10pm' ?

No, it would be considered around 10.15pm.

[faithlilly]

No, it would be considered around 10.15pm.

I think you're splitting hairs there Alfie.

[Alfred R Jones]

I think you're splitting hairs there Alfie.

That's you're opinion.  There are 4 key sectors on any clock - on the hour, quarter past, half past and quarter to.  It is natural when talking about approximates to cite to the nearest quarter, so for example Iam looking at my watch now and I would say "it's around half-past twelve".  Now tell me you would say "It's around 12"

[Alice Purjorick]

The little hand is between the 12 and the one, the big hand is just past the seven mummy.

Me? I still say things like it's just gone five and twenty to one. I blame my mother for it.

[Alfred R Jones]

The little hand is between the 12 and the one, the big hand is just past the seven mummy.

Me? I still say things like it's just gone five and twenty to one. I blame my mother for it.

Jolly well done Alice, there's a good boy - you'd better run along now - Mummy is calling you for dinner.