DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[Eleanor]

How about you stand up in court & say...

'We found a trace of cadaver odour, no missing person has ever shown up alive after a death dog indicated that they weren't, therefore your honour it is pretty bleedin obvious that she aint."

It wouldn't wash in Court I'm afraid.

[ferryman]

Why should there be an innocent scent?   Why ever not?

Have you the least idea just how cross-contaminable cadaver odour is?  Just ask your local undertake.

And never forget blood!

We've long known about Paul Gordon's shaving cut.

But I am indebted to Anna for unearthing a whole host of other witness statements indicating that others besides did, or might have, bled in apartment 5a:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3582.285

Are we really to believe no one bled in any other apartments?

[Mr Gray]

How about standing up in court and saying...In my OPINION the dogs MAY have alerted to cadaverine contaminant...and IF they did it could be as a result of several scenarios...

Try sticking to the truth...its not quite so dramatic though is it

[Eleanor]

This is such a waste of time.  Dogs, Dogs, Dogs.  When even their handler doesn't know what they were alerting to.  And no Court would accept them as Evidence.

[jassi]

How about standing up in court and saying...In my OPINION the dogs MAY have alerted to cadaverine contaminant...and IF they did it could be as a result of several scenarios...

Try sticking to the truth...its not quite so dramatic though is it

That's fair enough. Even 'experts' only have opinions.

[Serendipity]

This does not follow.  You have no idea what Andy Redwood is thinking.  And Cadaver Odour does not have to come into it.

So tell me what else could possibly make him suggest the possibility of Madeleine not being alive BEFORE she left 5a?

[jassi]

Hello, I seem to think that there was an alert in the case of one of the young ladies kidnapped in the USA I can't remember all the details but was it during the hunt for Gina de Jesus.  Who of course later turned up safe and well.

Cue frantic Google search 

[Mr Gray]

So tell me what else could possibly make him suggest the possibility of Madeleine not being alive BEFORE she left 5a?

Because its one of many possibilities...you are just grasping at straws

[Eleanor]

So tell me what else could possibly make him suggest the possibility of Madeleine not being alive BEFORE she left 5a?

Because he has to keep a sense of proportion about this.  He is running an investigation for heaven's sake. Not a Tea Party where everyone goes home happy.  All possibilities have to be considered.

[Eleanor]

Hello, I seem to think that there was an alert in the case of one of the young ladies kidnapped in the USA I can't remember all the details but was it during the hunt for Gina de Jesus.  Who of course later turned up safe and well.

I believe so, but I can't remember the precise details.

[Wonderfulspam]

Hello, I seem to think that there was an alert in the case of one of the young ladies kidnapped in the USA I can't remember all the details but was it during the hunt for Gina de Jesus.  Who of course later turned up safe and well.

In September 2006, police acting on a tip tore up the concrete floor of the garage and used a cadaver dog to search unsuccessfully for DeJesus' body.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/07/missing-teenagerss-amanda-berry-gina-dejesus-found-alive


They used a dog to search for her. No mention of alerts there.

That's as close as I can get, perhaps you can do better.

[Serendipity]

Because he has to keep a sense of proportion about this.  He is running an investigation for heaven's sake. Not a Tea Party where everyone goes home happy.  All possibilities have to be considered.

Why was he so specific about timing?  Why BEFORE she left the apartment?  Why not just say there is a chance that she may not still be alive?

[Carana]

Ahh sorry to pee on your bonfire but it is THAT straightfoward.  :)

'The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes. However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.'

In the case study referenced  gauze pads were placed on the abdominal area of 5 decedents for exactly 20 minutes before being taken away and used for testing. The decedents had been dead between 70 minutes and 3 days.  In the case of the earliest positive scenting the time was logged at 1 hr 25 mins

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

It dates back to 97. Under which conditions was this done? Has this been noted in the scientific journals?

NOTES:
We emphasize our inability to control all variables during our project. It has been impossible for us to obtain scent samples and carry out the trials under strictly controlled conditions. We had no control over the environmental conditions under which our samples were gathered, manner and cause of death, nor could we exercise tight regulation over the quantity of samples of any one given time interval. Since there are periods in which our samples are few and far between, this project has no set deadline and will be ongoing for a time. Our intention is not to offer an absolute answer to the questions posed, but to initiate an ongoing dialogue and offer what we hope is a point of departure for other exciting research projects. This will shed light on the under-navigated and sometimes mysterious arena of canine olfaction applied to body recovery.


Is that it?

[icabodcrane]

Why was he so specific about timing?  Why BEFORE she left the apartment?  Why not just say there is a chance that she may not still be alive?

Scotland Yard's investigation  has to  acknowlege the fact that a cadaver dog alerted in the apartment where the missing child was last seen alive

They  have  to because there is no evidence to suggest the dog was  wrong  ...   it is entirely possible that the dog  DID  alert to the missing child's dead body having been in that apartment,  and Redwood has to investigate that possibility

That was,  I believe,  the reason he made public for the first time that Madeleine may have died in the apartment     

The difficulty is, of course,  if the dog was  right   (  and the scent of the child's dead body had been detected   )   then the time at which she died must be set at least one and a half hours before Kate found her missing   (  in order  for cadaverine odour to have been present  ) 

...  and that would have to mean that Madeleine was already dead when Gerry made his 9.05 check

Quite a hornet's nest that Redwood has stirred

[Wonderfulspam]

Scotland Yard's investigation  has to  acknowlege the fact that a cadaver dog alerted in the apartment where the missing child was last seen alive

They  have  to because there is no evidence to suggest the dog was  wrong  ...   it is entirely possible that the dog  DID  alert to the missing child's dead body having been in that apartment,  and Redwood has to investigate that possibility

That was,  I believe,  the reason he made public for the first time that Madeleine may have died in the apartment     

The difficulty is, of course,  if the dog was  right   (  and the scent of the child's dead body had been detected   )   then the time at which she died must be set at least one and a half hours before Kate found her missing   (  in order  for cadaverine odour to have been present  ) 

...  and that would have to mean that Madeleine was already dead when Gerry made his 9.05 check

Quite a hornet's nest that Redwood has stirred

Why would he even mention it though?  He didn't have to, what use is it for the public to know?