DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[Serendipity]

Where have all my posts gone about CPS invoking Section 9 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 which allows them to investigate British nationals for offences committed on foreign soil?

The very fact that CPS are involved means that section 9 has been invoked.  How can this forum ignore this important and relevant information?

[John]

Where have all my posts gone about CPS invoking Section 9 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 which allows them to investigate British nationals for offences committed on foreign soil?

The very fact that CPS are involved means that section 9 has been invoked.  How can this forum ignore this important and relevant information?

You may start a new thread to debate this issue but no reference should be made to any specific individual.

[Mr Gray]

You tell me why AR has suddenly changed from his stance that Madeleine may or may not be alive in general to being much more specific about her possibly NOT being alive BEFORE she left 5a?  Something has made him change his stance and to allow him to even make the suggestion of such a possibility and to be so specific as to the  timescales of a possible death in 5a.

Face it, AR knows what he is doing re suggestion of Madeleine's possible death before 8.30pm on 3/5/2007 and no amount of strawclutching from you and your cohorts will convince me otherwise

you are making assumptions...as far as I am concerned the death of maddie in the apt has always been a possibility.....the fact that you are not convinced is totally unimportant...remember Redwood said the Mccanns are not suspects..I suppose the fact that he has not said it this week makes you think he has changed his mind

[jassi]

You tell me why AR has suddenly changed from his stance that Madeleine may or may not be alive in general to being much more specific about her possibly NOT being alive BEFORE she left 5a?  Something has made him change his stance and to allow him to even make the suggestion of such a possibility and to be so specific as to the  timescales of a possible death in 5a.

Face it, AR knows what he is doing re suggestion of Madeleine's possible death before 8.30pm on 3/5/2007 and no amount of strawclutching from you and your cohorts will convince me otherwise

Does he?  I'm not so sure.

[Mr Gray]

Does he?  I'm not so sure.

that's right Jassi...when he said the McCanns were not suspects and was chasing others he was an idiot but now posters mistakenly think he is pointing towards the McCanns he is a star. I think he is a star and he does not suspect the McCanns

[jassi]

that's right Jassi...when he said the McCanns were not suspects and was chasing others he was an idiot but now posters mistakenly think he is pointing towards the McCanns he is a star. I think he is a star and he does not suspect the McCanns

One can't pick & choose, though - either everything he says is gospel, or nothing is.

I can't determine whether he is a devilishly clever detective, or an average one promoted beyond his ability.

[Carana]

Andy Redwood is being very clever in my opinion. The crux of Redwoods appeal yesterday is in his wording. As has been pointed out by a few people already, he did not say that possibly Madeleine may no longer be alive, he made the point of saying that she possibly may not have been alive BEFORE she left the apartment

He will know that it takes a minimum of 1.5 hours before cadaver scent develops on a body.  Assuming for a moment that Eddie alerted correctly to a cadaver and again assuming that that cadaver was Madeleine, that would totally throw Gerry's check at 9.10pm out of the window as was pointed out yesterday by others, there just ISN'T enough time between 9.10pm and the 10pm alert by Kate for a body to be detectable by a cadaver dog scent wise!

The purpose of the appeal for Binman/Tractorman is purely to eliminate him from their enquiries. Mr Redwood knows how highly unlikely it is that Binman/tractorman entered the apartment, sat on Madeleine's bed, killed her and then waited around for an hour and a half for cadaver odour to develop before making his escape with her body!

He also knows that Binman/Tractorman died in 2009. http://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pais/191195/novo-suspeito-da-policia-britanica-ja-foi-investigado-pela-pj-e-esta-morto


This post has been edited by Senior Editor so as to comply with forum rules.

There are several threads on this issue, and it is not as straightforward as you seem to assume.

[Carana]

A dog who barks when he finds the scent of death,  barked in the apartment where a missing child was last seen

It appears   Scotland Yard feel the need to find an explanation for that

Why  else  would they be saying that Madeleine might have died in apartment 5A  ? 

What,  apart from the cadaver dog's alert,  would lead them to consider that possibility at all  ?

If she had fallen victim to a perp who had gone one step further, then it might well be unlikely that she'd have left alive.

For the moment, the UK and the PJ seem to be investigating different possibilities as to who the perp (or perps) may have been.

[Carana]

No I know the Smiths didn't say so. Am going on assumption that an awake child would have had their arms around the adults neck or shoulders? The childs arms were down by her sides. Likely asleep,drugged or dead. The weather was said to be chilly and windy at 10pm. How likely is it that a child in pj's,no coat or blanket would have stayed asleep in those conditions? Not impossible but not likely either imo.

Some kids wake up, others stay sound asleep. Little Sean was fast asleep on the noisy tarmac.

[Carana]

As DCI Rdwood would also know a scent of cadaver odour does not a murder case make.  The fact that a scen tof cadaver odour was picked picked up in Apartment 5a does not of necessity mean somebody died there.   Only think of police embarrassment re the Shannon Matthews case

What has to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt is how it got there. A corpse is only one possibility -cross-contamination is another.

An innocent scent is yet another...

[Serendipity]

There are several threads on this issue, and it is not as straightforward as you seem to assume.

Ahh sorry to pee on your bonfire but it is THAT straightfoward.  :)

'The shortest post-mortem interval for which we received a correct response was one hour and 25 minutes. However, the post-mortem interval for which we received a consistently correct response from all dogs involved is 2.5 - 3 hours.'

In the case study referenced  gauze pads were placed on the abdominal area of 5 decedents for exactly 20 minutes before being taken away and used for testing. The decedents had been dead between 70 minutes and 3 days.  In the case of the earliest positive scenting the time was logged at 1 hr 25 mins

http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html

[jassi]

An innocent scent is yet another...

Why should there be an innocent scent?

[jassi]

Why should there be an innocent scent?   Why ever not?

Have you the least idea just how cross-contaminable cadaver odour is?  Just ask your local undertake.

Why is it so important to you to dismiss the possibility of the odour being correct?  You really don't know whether it is or it isn't.

[Eleanor]

You misunderstand me Jassi.  I'm not saying there was no cadaver odour present .  The question is how it got there. You can't stand up in Court. and claim  'We found a trace of cadaver odour ipso facto there must have been a corpse there.

I think that's the bit they don't get.

[Wonderfulspam]

How about you stand up in court & say...

'We found a trace of cadaver odour, no missing person has ever shown up alive after a death dog indicated that they weren't, therefore your honour it is pretty bleedin obvious that she aint."