DCI Redwood now admits Madeleine may not have left the apartment alive.

[jassi]

The discovery of a sexual predator with a known modus operandi of sexually abusing young girls in their beds ...

Was Madeleine abused in her bed?

[Mr Gray]

But presumably not by SY, until fairly recently.

who says so...I would say death in the apartment was  suspected early on by the UK police

[icabodcrane]

But death in the apartment was suspected BEFORE the dogs were brought in...so your whole argument is bogus

If the cadaver not had not  alerted in  apartment  5A, but had, instead,  behaved in the same way as he did in all the other apartments he was deployed in, do you believe Scotland Yard would still  have said Madeleine may have died there  ? 

On what basis  ?  ...  on what grounds  ? 

What,  other  than the cadaver dog's alerts would lead Scotland Yard into thinking Madeleine may have died in that apartment  ? 

[jassi]

who says so...I would say death in the apartment was  suspected early on by the UK police

In that case, why do you think SY have only just mentioned it when they have had plenty of opportunity to do so earlier, including two Crimewatch programmes ?

[Mr Gray]

In that case, why do you think SY have only just mentioned it when they have had plenty of opportunity to do so earlier, including two Crimewatch programmes ?

It was the uk police who decided to bring a cadaver dog to the apartment...it seems logical they suspected death in the apartment...wouldn't you agree

[Eleanor]

If the cadaver not had not  alerted in  apartment  5A, but had, instead,  behaved in the same way as he did in all the other apartments he was deployed in, do you believe Scotland Yard would still  have said Madeleine may have died there  ? 

On what basis  ?  ...  on what grounds  ? 

What,  other  than the cadaver dog's alerts would lead Scotland Yard into thinking Madeleine may have died in that apartment  ?

Man's inhumanity to small children.  Andy Redwood must know more about that than we do.

[jassi]

It was the uk police who decided to bring a cadaver dog to the apartment...it seems logical they suspected death in the apartment...wouldn't you agree

I was talking about Scotland Yard - see my post 306

[jassi]

The UK police decided?  In a matter that was NOT within their jurisdiction? Since when was Portugal a UK colony?

You are quoting me as saying something I haven't. Please amend your post 314

[icabodcrane]

Man's inhumanity to small children.  Andy Redwood must know more about that than we do.

I really don't think that when Andy Redwood said Madeleine  may have died in the apartment that he was doing so in some vague allusion to the world being a wicked place where bad things happen

I really don't

I believe that the only reason Andy Redwood has to think that Madeleine may have died in the apartment is the fact that a cadaver dog's alerts was suggestive of a dead body having been there at some point

I have asked what   other   reason he may have for saying what he did   (  that Madeleien may have died in the aparrtment )   and,  so far,  no-one  has come up with anything sensible

[Eleanor]

I really don't think that when Andy Redwood said Madeleine  may have died in the apartment that he was doing so in some vague allusion to the world being a wicked place where bad things happen

I really don't

I believe that the only reason Andy Redwood has to think that Madeleine may have died in the apartment is the fact that a cadaver dog's alerts was suggestive of a dead body having been there at some point

I have asked what   other   reason he may have for saying what he did   (  that Madeleien may have died in the aparrtment )   and,  so far,  no-one  has come up with anything sensible

In your opinion.  Which isn't to be relied on.

[Mr Gray]

If the cadaver not had not  alerted in  apartment  5A, but had, instead,  behaved in the same way as he did in all the other apartments he was deployed in, do you believe Scotland Yard would still  have said Madeleine may have died there  ? 

On what basis  ?  ...  on what grounds  ? 

What,  other  than the cadaver dog's alerts would lead Scotland Yard into thinking Madeleine may have died in that apartment  ?

on the grounds of possibility..if maddie had died in the apt and been removed immediately then cadaver scent would not have been present...therefore death in the apt is possible without cadaver alert


you need to understand...the dogs are tools to find evidence...just like a drug dog...no one has been arrested for a drug dog alert where no drugs were found

[jassi]

Surely what is important is that SY have come to the conclusion that Madeleine may well have died in the apartment.

How and why they have come to that conclusion is of secondary importance.

[Carew]

With all respect Carew it has been reported by a number of guests staying in OC prior to the arrival of the Mcanns of burglaries and attempted burglaries.  According to the record I have  the late Mrs Fenn reported such an attempt only a week before. Add to that other such crimes or attempted happening along the Algarve at that time.

I appreciate that the OC would hardly like new arrivals to know about it but surely in the interests of safety some hint should have been dropped.

As to ‘intent’ that’s quite an emotive word.  As it is there’s another that needs to be considered and that’s complacency something after what happened in Portugal 30 years ago a mistake I never made again.

30 years ago when the family stayed in Alvor just down the road from Praia da Luz at a time when my daughter was the same age as Madeleine I discovered that our hotel ran a morning playgroup between 10-30 am and 11-30amand.I thought how nice it would be for my daughter a single child to have companionship of her own age.

All went well for the first three days until the fourth when it all went horribly wrong, the playgroup shutting down early with no warning leaving the kids to fend for themselves. Imagine my feelings, therefore, when I turned to collect my daughter only to discover that there was nobody there. Put it this way the McCanns weren’t the first to have a daughter to go missing in Portugal.

My late husband and I were lucky.  Thanks to the vigilance of the hotel housekeep who could speak English our daughter was restored to us within an hour but I have never forgotten what happened in-between.  I don’t normally lose my cool but this was one such occasion when I totally lost it, screaming at everyone like a banshee on the loose. After that I made sure my daugher was always in eyeshot.

That is the point I’m trying to make.  You think you’re safe until the unexpected happens.

Thankyou for the comments.

There are many points to make as regards "intent / abandonment / exposure",  but I expect they will have been covered already ..........long before my time on here!

Anyway.........it is veering off topic and it can be easy to derail unintentionally.

[Carew]

That is the point I’m trying to make.  You think you’re safe until the unexpected happens.

Thankyou for the comments.

There are many points to make as regards "intent / abandonment / exposure",  but I expect they will have been covered already ..........long before my time on here!

Anyway.........it is veering off topic and it can be easy to derail unintentionally.

Like having one one's own daughter disappear in Portugal, however brief. is OFF topic?

The intent to neglect/abandon is a subject veering off-topic for this particular thread and I do not want to unintentionally derail.

That is what I meant.

[Carew]

Veering OFF topic?

How?

Just read the title.