Where was Gerry immediately after Kate found Madeleine gone at 10pm?

[Anna]

Thanks Anna.  (the fastest statement spotter in the west!)  Have you got the bit where she states the time she left?  It must be in another statement.  I think she made three statements in all.

Have to go out now.  Loads of things to catch up with.

Here you go Sadie

Dianne Webster
Prompted to state for the record the movements that occurred that night, during the above dinner, the witness reiterated that she could not say specifically who had left nor when they had done so.

Therefore, she can only say with precision that, at around 22.00 Kate McCann returned to the restaurant, seemingly in panic, communicating to others the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.

Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.

In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the McCANNS' apartment.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post528.html#p528

Edited to add Name

[pathfinder73]

Here you go Sadie

Dianne Webster
Prompted to state for the record the movements that occurred that night, during the above dinner, the witness reiterated that she could not say specifically who had left nor when they had done so.

Therefore, she can only say with precision that, at around 22.00 Kate McCann returned to the restaurant, seemingly in panic, communicating to others the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.

Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.

In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the McCANNS' apartment.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post528.html#p528

Edited to add Name

Gerry wasn't at the apartment when Dianne first came there after leaving the table.  She saw Gerry the 2nd time she went back to the apartment.

Dianne thought it was coming up to 10pm. She didn't know so why are you using her as FACT! The people who knew what time it was when Kate left were Matt and Russell and they say about 9.50 that she left not 10pm. That waiter who served Russell his steak has confirmed this time estimate. That other waiter who said he saw Gerry only guessed at a time from 9.30 to 10pm.


[... content moderated ...]

[jassi]

So?

Just stating a fact, I think Interesting that it gets that sort of response, though

[peter claridge]

Here you go Sadie

Dianne Webster
Prompted to state for the record the movements that occurred that night, during the above dinner, the witness reiterated that she could not say specifically who had left nor when they had done so.

Therefore, she can only say with precision that, at around 22.00 Kate McCann returned to the restaurant, seemingly in panic, communicating to others the fact of Madeleine's disappearance.

Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.

In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the McCANNS' apartment.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post528.html#p528

Edited to add Name

Also from the same statement
Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.
 
Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the Payne couple) for dinner the witness said no.
 
Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
 
That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21h00, in the company of the Payne couple.
 
That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and Matt had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
 
In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.

[Carana]

Ok. She'd nipped back to the Tapas to collect stuff.

4078    ”How did she look?”

 Reply    ”Well I don’t know, frightened or absolutely, well, it’s very difficult to take in when something like that, you know, you’re just sitting at a table having what was a nice meal and err everybody just, you know, stopped what they were doing and just got up and Fiona said to me you know, I said what do you want me to do and she said you stay there in case err you know if Madeleine, because at that time we didn’t know what had happened because I think Gerry had sort of said to Kate oh she can’t be, you know. Err so I, I stayed at the table in case Madeleine had wandered off and she might come looking round the restaurant. Err this is when it gets all a bit confusing because I’ve no idea how long I, I stayed there. I don’t, I don’t think it was that long and I know that at one point, again, this wasn’t in my original statement, Dave did come back to the table and say can, can you just go back to the apartment, but all this is very, very, very vague and I know when I left the table I went, I did go into err Kate and Gerry’s err apartment, which was just absolute err just terrible.”

 

 4078    ”What did you see when you got there?”

 Reply    ”What did I see? Well Kate and Gerry, Gerry was absolutely, absolutely distraught, absolute, you know, I mean I’ve never heard a man make the noises he made, err and Kate, Kate was just err you can’t, you just can’t put into words how they were I mean they were just, I remember I went through into the room where err where Madeleine was sleeping and err and she said you know, somebody, you know, she’s been taken because she said that the shutters and that had been open, the window open. Err the twins were still asleep in the cot and I, with all the noise going on I don’t know how they slept through it which makes me think there was, they must have been err drugged with something.”

 

 4078    ”What could you see of Madeleine’s bed?”

 Reply    ”Well the, it was neatly turn, what I remember the cover was neatly turned back. I mean her bed was right in the err corner, you went in the door and it was, you’d have to look round the door to err see it, and err it was just neatly turned back and she just wasn’t there.”

 

 4078    ”Do you remember who else was around when you back to the apartment?”

 Reply    ”I think, well Fiona was there I think and err Rachael, I remember seeing Rachael and Gerry, I just remember Gerry sitting in the chair just absolutely, well roaring is the only word I can describe it as, just absolutely beside himself. The men, the other men I think were, had gone out looking, running around shouting Madeleine, and Fiona, Fiona wanted me to go back and err keep, I mean obviously everybody’s concerned for their own children as well and I think also there’d been things left at the table, like err cameras and Rachael’s jacket and things so I, I err, I think I went back to the table then to pick up err what had been left behind, I’m not sure, I think the monitor was there as well and one of the staff at the restaurant asked me what had happened and I just said one of the children has gone missing.”

 

 4078    ”Do you have any idea what time it was by that point?”

 Reply    ”No err you see I can’t remember how long I sat at the table before I went up to see what was going on.”

 

 4078    ”But when you went back the Tapas was still open? The staff were still around?”

 Reply    ”Yeah, yeah.”

 

[pegasus]

Been reading the Turner case is it possible that even while all the early searches were going on the apartment had not been totally searched?

[pathfinder73]

Madeleine would've been found in the apartment later when the police were searching if she was hidden. I think it's safe to say that Smithman was seen carrying her away long sleeves or not! SY will be after him not Smelly pot belly man.

[pegasus]

Madeleine would've been found in the apartment later when the police were searching if she was hidden. I think it's safe to say that Smithman was seen carrying her away long sleeves or not! SY will be after him not Smelly pot belly man.

In the Turner case searches of the neighborhood proceeded after both the family and the Detroit police had searched the house .

[pathfinder73]

In the Turner case searches of the neighborhood proceeded after both the family and the Detroit police had searched the house .

I think any detective worth their salt knows it was Smithman carrying Madeleine. Amaral was always correct on that one and then he was removed. Seems fishy to me!

[pathfinder73]

Kate was alone when Dianne first went there (she was checking the shutters for Kate), next Fiona came and Kate was alone. Gerry was out searching.

[jassi]

Kate was alone when Dianne first went there, next Fiona came and Kate was alone. Gerry was out searching.

Or, at least, he was out somewhere.

[pathfinder73]

Rachel Oldfield Rog Interview

Kate said you know, she’d go up and check, do her check and within a couple of minutes later she came back and shouting Madeleine’s gone you know, and then we all just leapt up from the table and went up to her, followed her and Gerry, erm up to their apartment and erm and I remember sort of standing at the bottom of the steps, I didn’t go into the apartment, standing at the bottom of the steps by the patio doors and I think Matt and Russell might have been having a look in the garden, erm and then Matt and I went round and went to our apartment to check on Grace, erm and she was there, erm and then Matt sort of went back and I think he went off to sort of look a bit more and search and he, he went down to call the Police at the main reception of the Ocean Club, erm and I just stayed near our apartment really and Jane was, she didn’t know what happened, she was looking after Evie, so I went to tell Jane what had happened, erm I think it must have been, must have been after we checked on Grace or sort of, after we checked on Grace and come out and I think perhaps Kate and Fi were standing by the window, like on the outside of the apartment and no, Kate, I think Kate had said you know, somebody’s taken her, cos the shutter was up and the window was open, erm yeah, I think it was then that we kind of realised that she’d been taken, erm as, you know, as opposed to just kind of wandering out of her bed and just wondering where people were, erm and then, and I remember then going to talk to Jane and Matt went off and that, I went to talk to Jane and said you know, that Madeleine had disappeared and the window was open and the shutter was up, erm and then Jane said to me that when she’d come back to do her check, erm she’d seen somebody carrying a child, walking kind of across the top of the T junction, as she, as she’d been walking up from the, from the Ocean Club, they’d been walking across the top of the road and we kind of said well you know, could have been, not could have been anyone but still sure it couldn’t have been Madeleine because Gerry, cos you know if when she was, when she left the table to come up to do her check, Gerry was talking to Jez in the road, erm and so we, you know we had this discussion between ourselves, oh you know, it couldn’t have been Madeleine because you know Gerry had only just checked and he was standing in the road and surely he would have seen, or you know surely somebody couldn’t have taken her that quickly cos Gerry had literally just come out of the apartment, erm and we kind of you know battered that idea back and forward between us for you know, a couple of minutes, erm but you know, anyway”.

1578    “So what time did Jane tell you this”?

Reply    “It must have been about, erm ten past ten or something, quarter past ten I guess”.

1578    “And whereabouts did she tell you”?

Reply    “We were just outside her apartment but there was like a space between the apartments, erm sort of courtyard-y bit”.

1578    “From the car park entrance or the pool side”?

Reply    “Yeah, no the car park entrance”.

1578    “And who was present when she was telling you this”?

Reply    “No just me, just me, cos erm Fi was with Kate and, and Gerry and, well with Kate and Gerry I think and all the boys were sort of, had started to look around and started to, Matt had gone to the Police Station to, no gone to the Ocean Club to phone the Police”.

1578    “What was Jane’s demeanour when she was telling you this”?

Reply    “Erm she was quite shocked, well we were kind of bit puzzled, cos we thought well you know, could it really have been cos Gerry had just been in, erm but it was a bit of a sort of Jane was like, everybody gob smacked really that you know, she could well have seen Madeleine, erm but we did, you know we, we didn’t have this discussion about whether it could have been just because of the sort of time of Gerry going in and him standing outside talking to Jez and you know, it would have been, somebody would have had to you know, sort of be very quick, or have been in the room when Gerry had gone in, we didn’t talk about that at that time but, you know afterwards, erm obviously that was, I think we kept, yeah I mean we basically came to the conclusion that somebody would have had to have been in the room when Gerry had gone in to check”.

1578    “Okay”.

Reply    “So anyway Jane and I you know talked about that and, and then I can’t remember whether she told, I think she told Fiona then, erm I mean basically you know as soon as the Police arrived, she told, she told the Police”.

1578    “When you, when you rose from the Tapas table and you followed Kate”.

Reply    “Mmm”.

1578    “To their apartment 5A, you said that you didn’t go into the apartment”.

Reply    “Yeah didn’t go in”.

1578    “Who were you with at that point”?

Reply    “Well we were altogether really, I think I was probably at the back with Matt, had some high heels on that I couldn’t really run very fast, remember that”.

1578    “And then”?

Reply    “I got to the bottom of the steps and Dave and Fi and Gerry and Kate were already sort of on the balcony of Gerry and Kate’s apartment, and I think had maybe already gone inside, erm and I think, I think Russell and Matt maybe went into the garden and just had a quick scoot around there to make sure”.

1578    “And then shortly after yourself and Matt”?

Reply    “Yeah”.

1578    “Went round”.

Reply    “Went round”.

1578    “To your apartment”?

Reply    “Yeah”.

1578    “How soon after”?

Reply    “Well literally like you know a minute, was sort of a minute, no more than that”.

[Mr Moderator]

Point of note.  The time of 10pm is important for so many reasons.   It was at this time that the Smith family had an encounter with a man carrying what appeared to them to be a sleeping child.  At this time Kate alerted the seated tapas group (minus Jane Tanner) that Madeleine had disappeared.  Gerry was seated with the group at 10pm, consequently, he could not have been half a mile away being seen by the Smiths.

[pegasus]

I think any detective worth their salt knows it was Smithman carrying Madeleine. Amaral was always correct on that one and then he was removed. Seems fishy to me!

Why assume that any one had discovered anything that early?

[pathfinder73]

They had all left the table before 10pm except for Dianne Webster. Sighting was 400 metres away - do it in 2 minutes running half the distance.