Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[Mr Gray]

No derailment.

Just provide the proof the dogs were wrong.

you are absolutely correct Stephen...it is impossible to prove the dogs wrong...and it is impossible to prove them right...that's why the dogs alerts are worth sweet FA.

Now we have proved you right this should be the end of the dog threads...but I doubt it will

[Mr Gray]

You also have to evaluate the statistical success of dogs in cases where they have been used to locate bodies.

A principa lof course which the Police would also use as well. >@@(*&)

Wrong on this one...and you were doing so well. Its the police job to collect evidence not to evaluate it...the court evaluates it and as you have proved  ...the alerts have no evidential value

[stephen25000]

Wrong on this one...and you were doing so well. Its the police job to collect evidence not to evaluate it...the court evaluates it and as you have proved  ...the alerts have no evidential value

Wrong on that one davel.

The police do look at stats, in the case of whether to pursue a case or not.

Surely you realize that.

[Anna]

What I said was,  is that it is entirely possible the cadaver dog picked up the scent of  the missing child's dead body

...  it is,  isn't it  ?

You said:-
These  'dog'  threads go on and on,  but, in truth,  there is nothing to say the cadaver dog in the McCann case did  not  detect the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body

Whilst the child  remains disappeared it is entirely possible that the dog barked because she died in apartment 5A ,   and he picked up the scent

My answer stands +
It is as possible as the open window evidence, indicating an abduction,
as any of the other the inconclusive evidence = Either way Nothing! Except your beliefs of course.

[icabodcrane]

You said:-
These  'dog'  threads go on and on,  but, in truth,  there is nothing to say the cadaver dog in the McCann case did  not  detect the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body

Whilst the child  remains disappeared it is entirely possible that the dog barked because she died in apartment 5A ,   and he picked up the scent

My answer stands +
It is as possible as the open window evidence, indicating an abduction,
as any of the other the inconclusive evidence = Either way Nothing! Except your beliefs of course.

Do you accept that it is entirely possible that the cadaver dog picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ?

[ferryman]

Do you accept that it is entirely possible that the cadaver dog picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ?

No clue about Anna.

But I certainly don't ...

[icabodcrane]

No clue about Anna.

But I certainly don't ...

Go on then,  I'll bite

Why is it  impossible for the cadaver dog to have picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ?

[Wonderfulspam]

You said:-
These  'dog'  threads go on and on,  but, in truth,  there is nothing to say the cadaver dog in the McCann case did  not  detect the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body

Whilst the child  remains disappeared it is entirely possible that the dog barked because she died in apartment 5A ,   and he picked up the scent

My answer stands +
It is as possible as the open window evidence, indicating an abduction,
as any of the other the inconclusive evidence = Either way Nothing! Except your beliefs of course.

Billowy curtains, open window, shutters open, empty bed.....

There really is only one logical conclusion I can draw from these things & it's paedo's done it.

[Anna]

Do you accept that it is entirely possible that the cadaver dog picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ?

My disbelief comes from here:-

Puzzle:-

1. No alert by the dog in the Apartment that the McCanns moved into after leaving 5A? Or in the villa.
Surely the clothing would have been contaminated by the wardrobe in 5A which was supposed to have been marked as having cadaver scent, by Eddie.
 This clothing would surely cross contaminate other articles. Seating, bedding and soft furnishings in these other places occupied by the McCanns afterwards?

2. Alerts in 5A and the Gym 3 months later ?

3. Toy alerted and then not alerted? What is all that about?

4. No blood found in 5A by the Pt, C.S.I team ?

5. We have no idea who or what occupations of  persons who stayed in 5A or what may have occurred in 5A , not to mention the traffic in and out of the Apartment,……. after the departure of the McCanns?

5. Why was the car driven to the inspection area, by police who could have contaminated evidence ?
No substantiation to alerts in the car however except for Gerry’s blood on the key, which he must have touched along with the car’ door handle, gear etc ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
None of it makes any sense at all.
If the dogs did not alert to the Apt that the McCanns moved into with their clothing on the night and then into another Apt, where there must have been cross contamination in the Apt somewhere. (if they had the odour on their clothing).
And yet the dog alerted to the same clothing in the Gym (All from one box.
 Where is the answer to this puzzle.???
====================================================

[icabodcrane]

My disbelief comes from here:-

Puzzle:-

1. No alert by the dog in the Apartment that the McCanns moved into after leaving 5A? Or in the villa.
Surely the clothing would have been contaminated by the wardrobe in 5A which was supposed to have been marked as having cadaver scent, by Eddie.
 This clothing would surely cross contaminate other articles. Seating, bedding and soft furnishings in these other places occupied by the McCanns afterwards?

2. Alerts in 5A and the Gym 3 months later ?

3. Toy alerted and then not alerted? What is all that about?

4. No blood found in 5A by the Pt, C.S.I team ?

5. We have no idea who or what occupations of  persons who stayed in 5A or what may have occurred in 5A , not to mention the traffic in and out of the Apartment,……. after the departure of the McCanns?

5. Why was the car driven to the inspection area, by police who could have contaminated evidence ?
No substantiation to alerts in the car however except for Gerry’s blood on the key, which he must have touched along with the car’ door handle, gear etc ?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
None of it makes any sense at all.
If the dogs did not alert to the Apt that the McCanns moved into with their clothing on the night and then into another Apt, where there must have been cross contamination in the Apt somewhere. (if they had the odour on their clothing).
And yet the dog alerted to the same clothing in the Gym (All from one box.
 Where is the answer to this puzzle.???
====================================================

Yes,  yes  ...  and round it goes

But I did not ask you whether you  believed  the cadaver dog picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ....  I aked if you accepted  it is  'possible'  that he did 

It is possible,   isn't it  ?

[Estuarine]

any chance of a post actually on topic...you and Stephen seem to just throw insults and attempt to disrupt almost every thread now  with personal attacks

See my posts 103, 177 & 225. Compare those with your erudite response 226 and a plethora of your daily one liners that frequently end in the words "wrong" or "fool".

The thread title is Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable? not "were Eddie and Keela reliable".
So as we are all wrong and fools according to you perhaps you would like to give us your considered opinion on the thread topic taking into account the six or seven authoritative scientific papers on the topic.

[ferryman]

Just in case anyone should be in doubt about Eddie, literally, playing with the toy, this is from the report of PJ Inspector Dias:

On one of the films, it's possible to see that 'Eddie' sniffs Madeleine's cuddle cat, more than once, bites it, throws it into the air and only after the toy is hidden does he 'mark' it (page 2099). Whys didn't he signal it when he sniffs it on the first time'

No dog attending a crime-scene should have physical contact with anything it is tasked to inspect.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/ANALYSIS-11-VOLUMES.htm

[ferryman]

Yes,  yes  ...  and round it goes

But I did not ask you whether you  believed  the cadaver dog picked up the scent of Madeleine McCann's dead body  ....  I aked if you accepted  it is  'possible'  that he did 

It is possible,   isn't it  ?

Try not to get your hopes up too high.

No, it isn't possible

[Wonderfulspam]

Try not to get your hopes up too high.

No, it isn't possible

Yes, it is.

[icabodcrane]

Possible but Highly unlikely. Do you believe it is possible, she was abducted? It is possible is it not? After all that is what SC believes

Of course I believe it is possible that Madeleine was abducted

But this thread is about the dogs and I think it is important to acknowledge that it is entirely possible that the cadaver dog barked in apartment 5A  because Madeleine had died there and he picked up the scent