Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[gilet]

The dogs are very capable, but I still wonder about how come Eddie could smell  something through the seals of a car door designed to be absolutely water and draft proof ...  yet Eddie could not smell anything when his nose was just inches away from Ccat, which was hidden behind a partailly open door.  And why with such immense ability to smell scents he had to have his nose virtually on the exact spot on the counter before he could smell any scent.

It all seems very fishy to me, but then I am not an expert

Was that moment which you are referring to the same as the one which I recollect where he had to virtually place his nose on the work surface used for the preparation of food, then had to go to the other end of the room before alerting to the toy in the cupboard under the very work surface he had previously been so close to; the toy which Grime knew was there in the first place because it had only been placed there after the dog had played with it in another location and failed to alert to it in that other location?  If so, that also puzzles me. But like you, I make no claims to be an expert.

[Silkywhiskers]

Was that moment which you are referring to the same as the one which I recollect where he had to virtually place his nose on the work surface used for the preparation of food, then had to go to the other end of the room before alerting to the toy in the cupboard under the very work surface he had previously been so close to; the toy which Grime knew was there in the first place because it had only been placed there after the dog had played with it in another location and failed to alert to it in that other location?  If so, that also puzzles me. But like you, I make no claims to be an expert.

No, you just claim everyone attached to this mess are useless, unprofessional, planted, slanted, biased, and mean to poor Kate and Gerry.

[John]

There is nothing false about a post mortem interval; some dispute about  the time of the PMI ..

I think you fail to grasp the point.  If Madeleine died and was immediately removed from the scene a VRD can still detect that death if an item of clothing etc which had been in contact with her was brought back to the scene.  Her remains did not require to have lain in situ for 90 mins  or 2 hours.

[John]

As far as the new forensic tests are concerned this is something which is being done as a matter of necessity.  The results are crucial to the ongoing investigation just as they were back in 2007.  Further advances in DNA analysis techniques might just create the breakthrough SY are looking for.

Eddie and Keela never failed to detect the substances which they were trained for.  Eddies behaviour and alerts in entering apartment 5a are extremely suspicious and are certainly indicative of cadaver contaminants having been there at some time previously.  The question of course is what those alerts related to?

[ferryman]

As far as the new forensic tests are concerned this is something which is being done as a matter of necessity.  The results are crucial to the ongoing investigation just as they were back in 2007.  Further advances in DNA analysis techniques might just create the breakthrough SY are looking for.

Eddie and Keela never failed to detect the substances which they were trained for.  Eddies behaviour and alerts in entering apartment 5a are extremely suspicious and are certainly indicative of cadaver contaminants having been there at some time previously.  The question of course is what those alerts related to?

I think you've succeeded in saying the opposite of what you mean.

There is certainly plenty of reason to be suspicious about the (apparent!) 'alerts' of Eddie (in particular) ...

[stephen25000]

I think you've succeeded in saying the opposite of what you mean.

There is certainly plenty of reason to be suspicious about the (apparent!) 'alerts' of Eddie (in particular) ...

Of course you would say that.

You are batting for the mccanns.

[Carana]

I think you fail to grasp the point.  If Madeleine died and was immediately removed from the scene a VRD can still detect that death if an item of clothing etc which had been in contact with her was brought back to the scene.  Her remains did not require to have lain in situ for 90 mins  or 2 hours.

What has led you to that conclusion?

[gilet]

I think you fail to grasp the point.  If Madeleine died and was immediately removed from the scene a VRD can still detect that death if an item of clothing etc which had been in contact with her was brought back to the scene.  Her remains did not require to have lain in situ for 90 mins  or 2 hours.

Actually no remains of any body need ever have been in that apartment.

 There is absolutely no reason why any cadaver should ever have been present there. Any clothing which had been in contact with any dead person anywhere which had been brought into the apartment at any time could have been the source of the cadaver odour.

The presumption that it must relate to Madeleine McCann or that any cadaver must have ever been present in that apartment at any time which many people seem to make is quite ridiculous.

[gilet]

No, you just claim everyone attached to this mess are useless, unprofessional, planted, slanted, biased, and mean to poor Kate and Gerry.

That is not actually true. Nor does it in any way refute the accurate description of the dog actions as shown in the video of the searches which I outlined.

[John]

Actually no remains of any body need ever have been in that apartment.

 There is absolutely no reason why any cadaver should ever have been present there. Any clothing which had been in contact with any dead person anywhere which had been brought into the apartment at any time could have been the source of the cadaver odour.

The presumption that it must relate to Madeleine McCann or that any cadaver must have ever been present in that apartment at any time which many people seem to make is quite ridiculous.

It most certainly isn't ridiculous but you just keep on thinking that if it makes you happy.  A child disappeared from that apartment and Scotland Yard have now been forced to admit that Madeleine McCann may have died there so we must consider that the dog alerts very much related to her.

What I do find ridiculous however is your presumption that the dog alerts are unrelated to Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

[Mr Gray]

It most certainly isn't ridiculous but you just keep on thinking that if it makes you happy.  A child disappeared from that apartment and Scotland Yard have now been forced to admit that Madeleine McCann may have died there so we must consider that the dog alerts very much related to her.

What I do find ridiculous however is your presumption that the dog alerts are unrelated to Madeleine McCann's disappearance.

Who says SY have been forced to admit Maddie may have died in the appt....It was considered maddie may have died in the apartment BEFORE the dogs were brought in. The dogs alerts may be totally unrelated to Maddies disappearance...no one knows

[John]

Who says SY have been forced to admit Maddie may have died in the appt....It was considered maddie may have died in the apartment BEFORE the dogs were brought in. The dogs alerts may be totally unrelated to Maddies disappearance...no one knows

They have been forced to admit it after promoting the idea from the outset that she is still alive.  Maybe you haven't notice it yet Dave but they aren't digging up Praia da Luz for buried treasure!

I agree with your last comment, the dogs alerts could very well not relate to Madeleine but this is not what the experts are saying.

[Mr Gray]

They have been forced to admit it after promoting the idea from the outset that she is still alive.  Maybe you haven't notice it yet Dave but they aren't digging up Praia da Luz for buried treasure!

I agree with your last comment, the dogs alerts could very well not relate to Madeleine but this is not what the exerts are saying.

Sy haven't promoted the idea she is still alive...they have said from the start she may be alive but she may be dead.

What experts are saying the alerts relate to maddie...Grime certainly hasn't said that

They are digging PDL because maddie may be there...on the other hand she may not be

[John]

Sy haven't promoted the idea she is still alive...they have said from the start she may be alive but she may be dead.

What experts are saying the alerts relate to maddie...Grime certainly hasn't said that

They are digging PDL because maddie may be there...on the other hand she may not be

I never said they were promoting the idea she is still alive to the exclusion of all else.  You have to admit however that their latest admission that she may have died in apt 5a is a departure from that previously held.

To answer the opening post I would consider Victim Recovery Dogs to be very capable but like most things there are degrees of competency.  Eddie was top of his class or Top Dog by all accounts and was never known to fail.

[Mr Gray]

I never said they were promoting the idea she is still alive to the exclusion of all else.  You have to admit however that their latest admission that she may have died in apt 5a is a departure from that previously held.

I think posters are making  a lot of one remark...as I said ...the only reason a cadaver dog was brought to 5a was because a death was suspected...that was seven years ago... I think most people including the mccanns think that maddie is dead...but there is still a glimmer of hope as there is no proof she is dead