Are Victim Detection and Forensic Evidence Search Dogs reliable?

[Mr Moderator]

German Shepherd specialist police dog with toy exiting Tia Sharpe's grandmother's house where the youngsters remains were found moments later following a further search of the property.  Police were criticised for ignoring the dog alerts during earlier searches.

www.eddieandkeela.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/specialist-dog-leaving-tia-sharps.html

Sorry Pegasus, I missed your posts.  Looks like we got a similar shot seconds apart.

[Mr Gray]

Cadaver dogs are extremely reliable at finding cadavers...thats their job

[Carana]

Very sadly, the girl's body was actually in that house.

[pegasus]

...
Sorry Pegasus, I missed your posts.  Looks like we got a similar shot seconds apart.

BTW I am now uncertain whether I have the name Buster correct.
And a question - what police force are those two german shepherds from - are they Met dogs??

[ferryman]

Cadaver dogs are extremely reliable at finding cadavers...thats their job

Yes, I would agree with that.

And sometimes they find blood, too, which can be valuable to an enquiry.

Eddie has ...

It's when nothing can be identified following an alert that the problems begin.

[pegasus]

Very sadly, the girl's body was actually in that house.

Yes very sad. The police made the point that their inadequate searching by human officers didn't alter anything for the victim. But it certainly did make things worse for the family. If only the police had listened to the german shepherd on the 8th instead of ignoring it, that would have eliminated the worst two days, which were the 8th to the 10th.

[Mr Gray]

Yes very sad. The police made the point that their inadequate searching by human officers didn't alter anything for the victim. But it certainly did make things worse for the family. If only the police had listened to the german shepherd on the 8th instead of ignoring it, that would have eliminated the worst two days, which were the 8th to the 10th.

If the dogs alerts were 100% reliable the police would have reacted to it...you need to ask yourself why they ignored it

[stephen25000]

Yes very sad. The police made the point that their inadequate searching by human officers didn't alter anything for the victim. But it certainly did make things worse for the family. If only the police had listened to the german shepherd on the 8th instead of ignoring it, that would have eliminated the worst two days, which were the 8th to the 10th.

Indeed.It highlights at the initial incompetence of the police, and the reliability of the dog.

Mmm.

[slartibartfast]

If the dogs alerts were 100% reliable the police would have reacted to it...you need to ask yourself why they ignored it

Again, perhaps they researched it on the internet and found claims that it was unreliable.

[stephen25000]

Again, perhaps they researched it on the internet and found claims that it was unreliable.

Indeed, let's face it, expert gerry mccnn said the dogs were unreliable, and who are we to doubt him ?

[Mervyn]

If the dogs alerts were 100% reliable the police would have reacted to it...you need to ask yourself why they ignored it

wouldnt it be better to ask the police !?   Thats right somebody did      

[Mr Gray]

Again, perhaps they researched it on the internet and found claims that it was unreliable.

if they thought the dogs were 100% they would have acted on the alert...simple

[pathfinder73]

if they thought the dogs were 100% they would have acted on the alert...simple

The fact is they're using them now in PDL so they're acting on the previous alerts.

[sadie]

The fact is they're using them now in PDL so they're acting on the previous alerts.

I dont think you have that quite right Pfinder.


Like all of us on here , we think the dogs alert very well to what they are trained to alert to.  The problem with Eddie was that he was also trained to alert to living body fluids that had stood for a while, so without forensic evidence he could have alerted to any body fluid from a living person.  And we know in 5A that there was a bad shaving accident with blood.

Forensics collaberated nothing to do with Madeleine.

At best Amaral was mistaken.  At worst, he chose to ignore the forensics or delibearetely ignore them

Grime made it clear that the alerts must be colaborated by forensic evidence or they mean nothing.



It is rather late in the day, but I can see no reason why dogs should not be used again.  They did their part according to their training.

Hopeful;ly who-ever is in charge now will take proper notice of the forensics.

I think SY will.



Unfortunately after such a long period and with so many wicked red herrings, I wonder if someone will plant a cadavar in 5A at this stage, so as to give a cadavar odour?

Some really dirty work appears to have been going on to try and implicate the Mccanns .... and hide the abductors.  I fear that it will not stop.

[pathfinder73]

I dont think you have that quite right Pfinder.


Like all of us on here , we think the dogs alert very well to what they are trained to alert to.  The problem with Eddie was that he was also trained to alert to living body fluids that had stood for a while, so without forensic evidence he could have alerted to any body fluid from a living person.  And we know in 5A that there was a bad shaving accident with blood.

Forensics collaberated nothing to do with Madeleine.

At best Amaral was mistaken.  At worst, he chose to ignore the forensics or delibearetely ignore them

Grime made it clear that the alerts must be colaborated by forensic evidence or they mean nothing.



It is rather late in the day, but I can see no reason why dogs should not be used again.  They did their part according to their training.

Hopeful;ly who-ever is in charge now will take proper notice of the forensics.

I think SY will.



Unfortunately after such a long period and with so many wicked red herrings, I wonder if someone will plant a cadavar in 5A at this stage, so as to give a cadavar odour?

Some really dirty work appears to have been going on to try and implicate the Mccanns .... and hide the abductors.  I fear that it will not stop.

Eddie was chosen because he was the best. He wasn't alerting to living body fluids. He detected cadaver which he was trained to find in FBI body farm and in previous cases.

ATTRACTA HARRON.

 A missing person, last seen returning from church, on foot, in N. Ireland.
 A missing person search did not reveal her whereabouts.
 The search of a suspect's 'totally burnt out vehicle' by forensic scientists did not reveal any evidence.
 A 'one minute' search by the EVRD identified a position in the rear passenger footwell where the dog alerted to the presence of human material.
 A sample was taken and when analysed revealed the victim's DNA.
 The enquiry then concentrated it's efforts on the suspect and the EVRD located the body of the woman in a river bank deposition site.
 Further searches identified a location where the EVRD alerted in the front bedroom of the offender's empty next door dwelling house.
 When interviewed the suspect admitted that the body had laid in the room for 1 hour prior to disposal. Forensic teams were unable to extract any forensic evidence despite being shown the exact position.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm