The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.

[Carana]

I'd still like to know how this reconstruction would be undertaken. No-one has ever offered an explanation? 

 For instance  JT says she left the table 5 or 10 mins after Gerry.    So which time do they use in a reconstruction -12 months later -  5 min or 10 mins? or what if she was wrong and it was actually 7 mins.    Jez Wilkins said he spoke to Gerry for 3 to 5 mins - so which time would they use during a reconstruction ?- would Jez and Gerry stand together for 3 mins or 5 mins?    The same problem arises with everyone else who could only give approximate times.     

Would they have to have to keep doing the recon over and over again using all the possible different times? 

The number of different permutations that are possible taking into account all of these approximate times are incalculable.   

Normally in reconstructions accurate timing is not that important, but in this case it was imperative that they recreated their exact movements because of the small window of opportunity which was made available by them for an abduction.      And that is the one thing none of them could  do - except Gerry with his 9.05 definite time.

With so many people all only able to give approx. times, it simply isn't possible to guarantee recreating their movements with any accuracy.      And even if they could - how could it prove the McCanns 'innocence' - I've never quite understood that.   'Innocence' of what?

On the other hand SY with their super duper technology could simply key All of the information (times, distances etc etc )  into a computer programme and it would do all the different permutations for them and confirm whether or not it was possible that there was a window of opportunity for Madeleine to be abducted.   Clearly it was  possible - as Andy Redwood confirmed.   Also much quicker, much cheaper and without the anguish of having to relive that night again which returning to Portugal and physically taking part would inevitably invoke.

That seems perfectly logical to me, Benice.

[Wonderfulspam]

I'd still like to know how this reconstruction would be undertaken. No-one has ever offered an explanation? 

 For instance  JT says she left the table 5 or 10 mins after Gerry.    So which time do they use in a reconstruction -12 months later -  5 min or 10 mins? or what if she was wrong and it was actually 7 mins.    Jez Wilkins said he spoke to Gerry for 3 to 5 mins - so which time would they use during a reconstruction ?- would Jez and Gerry stand together for 3 mins or 5 mins?    The same problem arises with everyone else who could only give approximate times.     

Would they have to have to keep doing the recon over and over again using all the possible different times? 

The number of different permutations that are possible taking into account all of these approximate times are incalculable.   

Normally in reconstructions accurate timing is not that important, but in this case it was imperative that they recreated their exact movements because of the small window of opportunity which was made available by them for an abduction.      And that is the one thing none of them could  do - except Gerry with his 9.05 definite time.

With so many people all only able to give approx. times, it simply isn't possible to guarantee recreating their movements with any accuracy.      And even if they could - how could it prove the McCanns 'innocence' - I've never quite understood that.   'Innocence' of what?

On the other hand SY with their super duper technology could simply key All of the information (times, distances etc etc )  into a computer programme and it would do all the different permutations for them and confirm whether or not it was possible that there was a window of opportunity for Madeleine to be abducted.   Clearly it was  possible - as Andy Redwood confirmed.   Also much quicker, much cheaper and without the anguish of having to relive that night again which returning to Portugal and physically taking part would inevitably invoke.

"prove the McCanns 'innocence' "

Demonstrate, not prove.

ie: they wouldn't look half as guilty as they do if they & their friends had cooperated fully.

As a result of them not , some people think the McCanns are more than a bit dodgy, and it's their own fault really isn't it.

[The Singularity]

Well thankyou for your opinions.

Heres a question for you,

Their daughter needed them, were they of any help to her by not going back?

They did everything they possibly could, they did the initial search and told the PJ all they could. Then it was over to the PJ and Snr Amaral to find Madeleine, not her parents.

[Wonderfulspam]

They did everything they possibly could, they did the initial search and told the PJ all they could. Then it was over to the PJ and Snr Amaral to find Madeleine, not her parents.

That's a no from you as well then.

[jassi]

They did everything they possibly could, they did the initial search and told the PJ all they could. Then it was over to the PJ and Snr Amaral to find Madeleine, not her parents.

In that, I think you are mistaken.

[Albertini]

I have no doubt that they all questioned the purpose in going back at that late stage. I would have questioned it, particularly if I had been one of the group and had read rubbish posted about me in the PT press for nearly a year. I'd have wondered what they hell the PJ were up to by that stage (with hindsight, I find Rebelo to have been neutral and trying to do his best - but they couldn't have known that).

Jez wasn't nuts about going over and facing a media scrum, either.

Well, they were supposed to be helping their friends find their daughter through the only official investigation at the time.

Rebelo's team were nothing to do with Amaral, and the idea they were going back to a North Korean style police state is frankly ridiculous.

The investigation deemed it necessary and indeed Rebelo's team went out of their way to provide explanations as to the purpose of it through the email exchanges between the group.

The fact is the investigation required it to move the process forward. The McCann's lawyers blocked them going by ensuring it was a worthless excercise without their friends whilst complying with their Arguido status.

[Albertini]

I'd still like to know how this reconstruction would be undertaken. No-one has ever offered an explanation? 

 For instance  JT says she left the table 5 or 10 mins after Gerry.    So which time do they use in a reconstruction -12 months later -  5 min or 10 mins? or what if she was wrong and it was actually 7 mins.    Jez Wilkins said he spoke to Gerry for 3 to 5 mins - so which time would they use during a reconstruction ?- would Jez and Gerry stand together for 3 mins or 5 mins?    The same problem arises with everyone else who could only give approximate times.     

Would they have to keep doing the recon over and over again using all the possible different times? 

The number of different permutations that are possible taking into account all of these approximate times are incalculable.   

Normally in reconstructions accurate timing is not that important, but in this case it was imperative that they recreated their exact movements because of the small window of opportunity which was made available by them for an abduction.      And that is the one thing none of them could  do - except Gerry with his 9.05 definite time.

With so many people all only able to give approx. times, it simply isn't possible to guarantee recreating their movements with any accuracy.      And even if they could - how could it prove the McCanns 'innocence' - I've never quite understood that.   'Innocence' of what?

On the other hand SY with their super duper technology could simply key All of the information (times, distances etc etc )  into a computer programme and it would do all the different permutations for them and confirm whether or not it was possible that there was a window of opportunity for Madeleine to be abducted.   Clearly it was  possible - as Andy Redwood confirmed.   Also much quicker, much cheaper and without the anguish of having to relive that night again which returning to Portugal and physically taking part would inevitably invoke.

From Rebelo:

The re-enactment of the fact is a procedure set forth in the Portuguese Law (Section 150 of the Portuguese Code of Criminal Procedure, which is below given as part of this order) and consists of re-enacting, as accurately as possible, the
situation where an event is said or is supposed to have occurred, and it also consists of repeating the way it has happened.

The re-enactment has, in this inquiry, a rather particular nature, taking into account that it aims at re-enacting facts occurred about a year ago, by means of a proximity to the situation in which they occurred, and also being aware of the
inconvenience that a trip to Portugal might represent to a group of British Citizens, although knowing that it represents a milestone of solidarity among friends and towards friends who find themselves in a particularly painful and difficult situation.

It shall also be noted that, although this procedure is considered to be very important to the investigation, it will only take place if all the below mentioned witnesses are present, considering that the arguidos (formal suspects) have already shown they are available to participate in the re-enactment.

The purpose is to gather all the participants - the arguidos Gerald McCann and Kate Healy, the witnesses who were having dinner at the Tapas Restaurant on 3rd May 2007, and who took turns to check on their children who were sleeping in the
respective apartments, as well as another witness who spoke with the arguido Gerald, who will perform what they did on the abovementioned date, as accurately as they recall, so that what is in their written statements can be confirmed. This will allow conclusions to be drawn on how things happened on site, thus making adjustments that will allow the investigation to determine the need for any supplemental procedure.

Page 4304 (Page 2 of 3)

The re-enactment that shall have the participation of the abovementioned group of people, as well as of any character whose figurative presence might be necessary to the visualization of the events, shall take place on 15th May, between 5.30 p.m. and 11.00 p.m. On 16th May all the procedure shall be formalized, according to what had already been settled for this date and considering that all the participants meant to be present have already been informed accordingly. This cannot be subject to any change due to the time and place where the procedure shall take place.

The re-enactment will be performed at the space of the abovementioned Restaurant, Block of Apartments where the facts occurred on that date, and in the surrounding area, and it will be carried out by the Policia Judiciária, with the respective video recording and with the cooperation of the Police Authorities required by the PJ.

The arguidos Gerald and Kate shall be notified through their Legal Representatives. The notification of the witnesses David Anthony Payne, Fiona Elaine Payne, Dianne Webster, Russell James O'Brien, Jane Michelle Tanner, Matthew David Oldfield, Rachael Mariamma Jean Mampilly and Jeremy Wilkins shall be made with the cooperation of the British Police, at Policia Judiciária's request.

Each notified person shall receive a copy of this Order - concerning the re-enactment.

Proceed accordingly.

APPENDIX - Copy of Section 150 of the Portuguese Code of Criminal Procedure

Of the re-enactment of events

Section 150

Assumptions and Procedure

1- A re-enactment of events is admissible whenever deemed necessary to ascertain whether a fact could have occurred in a determined way. This consists of reproducing,

Page 4305 (Page 3 of 3)

as accurately as possible, the situation in which the fact is said to have occurred or is supposed to have occurred, as well as of repeating the way it has happened.

2- The Order requring the re-enactment of the fact shall bear a short indication as to it's object, date, time and place where the procedure shall take place as well as to the way it will be carried out, eventually using audiovisual means. The same Order shall appoint experts to carry out specific operations.

3- Publicity of the proceedings shall be avoided as much as possible.

[The Singularity]

That's a no from you as well then.

If you are so convinced that they are guilty of some involvement and you don't need any proof on which to make this choice, why are you on a forum like this discussing it, clearly you can see this is a waste of your time surely?

[Eleanor]

I think Rebelo knew jolly well that it was a waste of time, and that he didn't expect this to come off, believing that by the failure to organize, it would reflect badly on The McCanns and leave The PJ smelling of roses.  Hence the not so subtle suggestion that The PJ were looking for discrepancies that had nothing to do with finding Madeleine, which was all far too late by then anyway.
A year later?  Don't make me laugh.

[Cariad]

They did everything they possibly could, they did the initial search and told the PJ all they could. Then it was over to the PJ and Snr Amaral to find Madeleine, not her parents.

No they didn't. Kate Mccann refused to answer 48 questions.

[jassi]

I think Rebelo knew jolly well that it was a waste of time, and that he didn't expect this to come off, believing that by the failure to organize, it would reflect badly on The McCanns and leave The PJ smelling of roses.  Hence the not so subtle suggestion that The PJ were looking for discrepancies that had nothing to do with finding Madeleine, which was all far too late by then anyway.
A year later?  Don't make me laugh.

Didn't it take about a  year to get the Tapas rogatories statements as well?

Correction, they were in January, so about 8 months -still a long time

[Eleanor]

Didn't it take about a  year to get the Tapas rogatories statements as well?

You can't blame The McCanns' friends for that delay.  Any more than I would blame The PJ for the delays going on in Portugal at the moment.  These letters have to be absolutely correctly dealt with by the law, otherwise any information gathered is worthless.

[jassi]

You can't blame The McCanns' friends for that delay.  Any more than I would blame The PJ for the delays going on in Portugal at the moment.  These letters have to be absolutely correctly dealt with by the law, otherwise any information gathered is worthless.

I wasn't thinking of blaming any one - merely commenting  on how slowly these things ground on.

[Eleanor]

I wasn't thinking of blaming any one - merely commenting  on how slowly these things ground on.

Sorry if I sounded accusatory.  I guess I was.   

The time to do a reconstruction was in the beginning, but it was refused, for spurious reasons that defeat me.  A year later they had all had enough of the leaks and the lies about all of them. And there were more leaks from PJ sources while The Rogs were going on and when Rebelo was out of Portugal.  That would put anyone off, especially as they were not legally obliged  to engage in what was increasingly looking like a stitch up of all of them. 
Would you have gone?

[Benice]

From Rebelo:

Thanks for that Albertini - but with hand on heart I still cannot see how it could be carried out with any accuracy 12 months after the event.    An accurate recon by TEN different people could not be guaranteed - or even expected IMO  - and as 'accuracy' was the key element required for it to be of any use - I really don't see the point of even trying.

As for their friends all being mega suspicious -  I find that totally understandable after their own experience of being viciously smeared by the PT media -  and after watching with horror as attempts were made to frame Kate and Gerry - why would anyone expect them to have the slightest trust in the PJ?

On top of that (as if that wasn't enough)  the fact that press intrusion could not be guaranteed, the fact that the McCanns were referred to as 'the offenders' in the correspondence  and especially the request 'not to bring their children' would have been more than enough to send my suspicions right through the roof!

Recons are usually carried out to hopefully jog the memories of unassociated members of the public or passers by who were in the same area at the time.    I didn't see any evidence that this was the aim of this proposed reconstruction.  So if it was me - I would be very suspicious as to what it's aims really were - as hoping to throw light on what happened to Madeleine didn't seem to be one of them