Author Topic: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.  (Read 284802 times)

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Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #825 on: January 10, 2015, 08:40:04 PM »
...And it really does stretch the imagination for some!  three people on the same small pavement? he didn't see her..Oh ok.


I have no opinion of your posts at all- why would I care what your opinion is? I am indifferent to how many posts you make or the content.

I was pointing out that you interjected a statement which was not in keeping with the discussion at the period of time. You could have said 'with hindsight.....

The tricks and spin are not as subtle as some would like. lol

I agree.  Claiming that Gerry said JT did not pass him by is not at all subtle - it's a downright lie.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #826 on: January 10, 2015, 09:03:58 PM »
When you put a dozen witnesses in a room and ask them to replicate what occurred on a previous occasion you will usually get a result of sorts.  Unfortunately, since most of the tapas 9 were drinking that evening I fear the results may not be as focussed as one would like.  However, that said, the detectives would be looking for any signs of inconsistency and divergences from the original statements and if found I have no doubt some explaining would be required.

Remember also that there are two potential sites within Luz where sightings have been claimed.  The PJ would possibly run both reenactments together to establish exactly where everyone was that we know about.  That in itself could very well have put to bed the oft mentioned contention that it was Gerry who was seen down town by the Smiths.

Which brings me to the issue of why wasn't Gerry asked to take part in a reenactment for the benefit of the Smiths.  That again would hopefully have shown once and for all that Martin Smith's original identification was mistaken.

The contention that Madeleine's father was the man who was the carrier in the alleged Smith sighting is one which will never be put to bed by the people who choose to believe it no matter what the result of contemporaneous
re-enactments.
The people who actually matter ... the PJ and SY ... obviously put it to bed long ago.

We already know that Martin Smith's identification was mistaken ... just as the almost identical statement made by Mr McCluskey which pre-dated it was mistaken.

On the other hand, if the Smith party of nine had revisited their route and venues of the evening ... an independent witness might have remembered seeing them ... or even remember serving them drinks.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #827 on: January 10, 2015, 09:05:09 PM »
When you put a dozen witnesses in a room and ask them to replicate what occurred on a previous occasion you will usually get a result of sorts.  Unfortunately, since most of the tapas 9 were drinking that evening I fear the results may not be as focussed as one would like.  However, that said, the detectives would be looking for any signs of inconsistency and divergences from the original statements and if found I have no doubt some explaining would be required.

Remember also that there are two potential sites within Luz where sightings have been claimed.  The PJ would possibly run both reenactments together to establish exactly where everyone was that we know about.  That in itself could very well have put to bed the oft mentioned contention that it was Gerry who was seen down town by the Smiths.

Which brings me to the issue of why wasn't Gerry asked to take part in a reenactment for the benefit of the Smiths.  That again would hopefully have shown once and for all that Martin Smith's original identification was mistaken.

Re: the part in bold above.  The explanation given would probably be along the lines of: "this brilliant idea of a "reconstitution" has made us recall things that hitherto we had forgotten or misremembered (which, after all is the main purpose of a reconstitution, isn't it?) and that is why there are a few divergences and inconsistencies from our statements " - and this explanation would have been perfectly plausible, would it not?  So, once again I ask you - how would any wrong-doing be established, or innocence demonstrated by a "reconstitution"?

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #828 on: January 10, 2015, 09:05:46 PM »
Really?

Maybe he didn't see her because she wasn't there?- it is a VERY SMALL PAVEMENT. and JW had a pushchair on it as well.

It couldn't have been that dark because JT saw a man carrying a child up at the top of the road( and they ALL believed her)...so how could GM not see her passing him by on the same side of the VERY SMALL PAVEMENT.
No wonder they didn't want to do a re enactment!!

So let's spin this.

Gerry did not see her...because she was not there! but he is not saying she was not there, he is saying he did not see her there... Hmmm
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #829 on: January 10, 2015, 09:21:07 PM »
Really?

Maybe he didn't see her because she wasn't there?- it is a VERY SMALL PAVEMENT. and JW had a pushchair on it as well.

It couldn't have been that dark because JT saw a man carrying a child up at the top of the road( and they ALL believed her)...so how could GM not see her passing him by on the same side of the VERY SMALL PAVEMENT.
No wonder they didn't want to do a re enactment!!

So let's spin this.

Gerry did not see her...because she was not there! but he is not saying she was not there, he is saying he did not see her there... Hmmm

All this was of significance and could be panned out, sort of if you stretch your credulity, until Andy Redwood fragged Tannerman. Now we might as well use Jez's time scale as he is the only independent witness to where Gerry was and at what time: like between quarter to nine til half past nine. Is there any other independent witness who can give us a better handle on what time Jez and Gerry were in the road? Was there any one else on the road who the PJ interviewed?
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Eleanor

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #830 on: January 10, 2015, 09:27:21 PM »

Gerry and Jeremy Wilkins couldn't even agree on what side of the road they were on, so why should Jane Tanner take all the flack.
And how would The PJ have dealt with that if they had needed to?

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #831 on: January 10, 2015, 09:34:11 PM »
Re: the part in bold above.  The explanation given would probably be along the lines of: "this brilliant idea of a "reconstitution" has made us recall things that hitherto we had forgotten or misremembered (which, after all is the main purpose of a reconstitution, isn't it?) and that is why there are a few divergences and inconsistencies from our statements " - and this explanation would have been perfectly plausible, would it not?  So, once again I ask you - how would any wrong-doing be established, or innocence demonstrated by a "reconstitution"?

Just showing up would have demonstrated something.

As did not showing up.

Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #832 on: January 10, 2015, 09:35:00 PM »
Really?

Maybe he didn't see her because she wasn't there?- it is a VERY SMALL PAVEMENT. and JW had a pushchair on it as well.

It couldn't have been that dark because JT saw a man carrying a child up at the top of the road( and they ALL believed her)...so how could GM not see her passing him by on the same side of the VERY SMALL PAVEMENT.
No wonder they didn't want to do a re enactment!!

So let's spin this.

Gerry did not see her...because she was not there! but he is not saying she was not there, he is saying he did not see her there... Hmmm

It is not true to say that Gerry has stated that JT did not pass him on the road.   That would mean he is calling her a liar.  He has never done that.      Unless you can provide the evidence to prove your claim - I think you should withdraw it.   It's against the rules to import lies into this forum.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #833 on: January 10, 2015, 09:54:58 PM »

Everyone in my office remembers their "five times table"- we all learned at different times and places, but the five times table never changed at all! Funny how we all remembered that...

IIRC learning tables was achieved by constant repetition of said tables.    What has that got to do with 10 people trying to recall what they did at a specific time?      All stuff which at the time of doing them they had no idea they had any need to remember them in any detail.    Can you remember without checking - exactly how many posts you've posted in the last couple of days, who you were responding to and exactly what time you posted them?

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #834 on: January 10, 2015, 10:13:58 PM »
[quote removed ]

Not a single thing has been learned since the first week of the case to rule anyone in or out.

You can say the police know more than we do, but that's exactly what we were told in 2007: it turned out to be incorrect then and I've every expectation it will be again.

You may be right to say the police aren't considering them now but that's another thing entirely.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:31:59 PM by Mr Moderator »

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #835 on: January 10, 2015, 10:14:25 PM »
Just showing up would have demonstrated something.

As did not showing up.
So what would showing up have demonstrated?

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #836 on: January 10, 2015, 10:16:59 PM »
So what would showing up have demonstrated?

As I said earlier: cooperation, willingness to do anything to help find Madeleine, and lack of fear of returning.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #837 on: January 10, 2015, 10:18:36 PM »
Not a single thing has been learned since the first week of the case to rule anyone in or out.

You can say the police know more than we do, but that's exactly what we were told in 2007: it turned out to be incorrect then and I've every expectation it will be again.

You may be right to say the police aren't considering them now but that's another thing entirely.
So apart from what was learned in the first week we should disregard every other piece of information gathered since then, because nothing has been learned from them, is that what you're saying? 

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #838 on: January 10, 2015, 10:20:00 PM »
So apart from what was learned in the first week we should disregard every other piece of information gathered since then, because nothing has been learned from them, is that what you're saying?

Nothing conclusive has been revealed.

All of the scenarios discussed in the first week are still possible.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #839 on: January 10, 2015, 10:21:31 PM »
As I said earlier: cooperation, willingness to do anything to help find Madeleine, and lack of fear of returning.
Well. perhaps you can tell me how the "reonstitution" would have helped find Madeleine then, seeing as how the McCanns friends and Jez Wilkins were all of the firm belief that Madeleine was taken by a stranger.