Author Topic: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.  (Read 284710 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1275 on: July 14, 2015, 07:38:22 PM »
Please stop saying "The Met got rid of Tannerman", it really is silly.  They eliminated him from their enquires, based on information they got from him.  Why shouldn't he still have the child's PJs?  We dressed our younger child in items of clothing belonging to our elder child several years later - does this make us freakish?  I can still remember items of clothing I  wore on various holidays 10 or 15 years ago thanks to umpteen photos taken of us at various times and locales - is this utterly bizarre?  As for the direction Crecheman was walking there may be a perfectly plausible explanation for it - Carana has already highlighted a number of them, do you really think so poorly of the Met as to think they would not establish such a thing?

I'll say just one thing in reply. Did he have pics of his child dated 3rd May 2007 and labelled 'in pj's'? That's how daft your attempted explanations are. I would be interested in Carana's thoughts on where Crecheman had been however, where can I find them?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 09:34:11 PM by John »
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Offline mercury

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1276 on: July 14, 2015, 07:42:33 PM »
I'll say just one thing in reply. Did he have pics of his child dated 3rd May 2007 and labelled 'in pj's'? That's how daft your attempted explanations are. I would be interested in Carana's thoughts on where Crecheman had been however, where can I find them?

  8@??)(

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1277 on: July 14, 2015, 07:43:27 PM »

As for Portugal not having crimewatch  the BBC declined the request,

The only thing I have seen in Portugal is a Sun reporter putting up Smithman poster, I think near the Tapas restaurant, after the Crimewatch programme.  If someone has better info on 'the search for Smithman' within Portugal, I would be most grateful.

At the moment, I don't think there has been one.  Shame.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 09:22:29 PM by John »
What's up, old man?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1278 on: July 14, 2015, 09:11:48 PM »
I'll say just one thing in reply. Did he have pics of his child dated 3rd May 2007 and labelled 'in pj's'? That's how daft your attempted explanations are. I would be interested in Carana's thoughts on where Crecheman had been however, where can I find them?
Maybe he did G-Unit, but even if he didn't why would it be necessary to have photgraphic evidence?  He was able to produce the PJs, he would remember having taken similar clothes to Tannerman on his holiday, what is daft about that?  As for Carana's explanations, I dunno where you'd find them.  On this forum some place, it may even have been Brietta, someone made some good observations on this point on this forum not that long ago.

Offline G-Unit

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1279 on: July 14, 2015, 09:28:08 PM »
Maybe he did G-Unit, but even if he didn't why would it be necessary to have photgraphic evidence?  He was able to produce the PJs, he would remember having taken similar clothes to Tannerman on his holiday, what is daft about that?  As for Carana's explanations, I dunno where you'd find them.  On this forum some place, it may even have been Brietta, someone made some good observations on this point on this forum not that long ago.


Well, you believe what you like but I think it's totally unbelievable. How strange that you quote something but don't know who said it or when. Perhaps you should try to provide links in future like other people do. Otherwise your statements are of no use.
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Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1280 on: July 14, 2015, 09:35:36 PM »
It wasn't his job to speak to them Benice.   In the UK Superintendents don't interview suspects. 

The arguido status was no impediment to Gonçalo Amaral working as normal otherwise he would have been suspended.  If every police officer in Portugal who has a complaint lodged against them were suspended there would be pitiful few of them to patrol the streets.

Then why did he go to such pains to hide the fact that he had never met them or spoken to them - both in his book and in TV interviews?

Are you sure about complaints lodged against police officers in Portugal?  IIRC members of the general public were so scared of the police that Mrs. Murat put up a 'table' where folk who were too frightened of the police to go to them could leave any 'evidence' connected to Madeleine case.    In those circumstances it is unlikely IMO that folk would dare to complain to the police about the police.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Alfred R Jones

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Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1281 on: July 14, 2015, 09:48:34 PM »


Well, you believe what you like but I think it's totally unbelievable. How strange that you quote something but don't know who said it or when. Perhaps you should try to provide links in future like other people do. Otherwise your statements are of no use.
If you think I'm going to spend hours to find a link to something someone on this forum said that you will just poo-poo anyway you've got another think coming.   

Offline G-Unit

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1282 on: July 14, 2015, 09:57:04 PM »
If you think I'm going to spend hours to find a link to something someone on this forum said that you will just poo-poo anyway you've got another think coming.

Next time you decide to make a statement remember you are supposed to back up what you say. Crecheman was coming from completely the wrong direction. SY either didn't know or didn't care. Either way, the result was that they looked silly.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:14:22 PM by John »
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Alfred R Jones

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Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1283 on: July 14, 2015, 10:03:36 PM »
If you think I'm going to spend hours to find a link to something someone on this forum said that you will just poo-poo anyway you've got another think coming.

Next time you decide to make a statement remember you are supposed to back up what you say. Crecheman was coming from completely the wrong direction. SY either didn't know or didn't care. Either way, the result was that they looked silly.
then perhaps you can provide a cite for the Met either not knowing or not caring which direction Crechman was coming from.  Many thanks.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:14:08 PM by John »

Offline John

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1284 on: July 14, 2015, 10:22:58 PM »
Then why did he go to such pains to hide the fact that he had never met them or spoken to them - both in his book and in TV interviews?

Are you sure about complaints lodged against police officers in Portugal?  IIRC members of the general public were so scared of the police that Mrs. Murat put up a 'table' where folk who were too frightened of the police to go to them could leave any 'evidence' connected to Madeleine case.    In those circumstances it is unlikely IMO that folk would dare to complain to the police about the police.

I suppose it depends what you mean by met.  He certainly was around when they were interviewed but I don't believe he was formally introduced or shook hands.  If I am wrong no doubt someone will point it out.

The Portuguese like the Spanish are suspicious of the police given the history of the countries where police forces were aligned to the ruling elite and tended to dispense justice on a partisan basis.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 10:26:09 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1285 on: July 14, 2015, 11:00:31 PM »
Then why did he go to such pains to hide the fact that he had never met them or spoken to them - both in his book and in TV interviews?

Are you sure about complaints lodged against police officers in Portugal?  IIRC members of the general public were so scared of the police that Mrs. Murat put up a 'table' where folk who were too frightened of the police to go to them could leave any 'evidence' connected to Madeleine case.    In those circumstances it is unlikely IMO that folk would dare to complain to the police about the police.

Amaral is not there to get close and make friends with suspects. The job of the police is to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.

A common sense rule, however, says doubt their word, without this meaning that they are to be considered as suspects. The information they provide must be cross-checked against other witness statements, in order to evaluate their veracity and credibility. The public in general, deeply touched by the misfortune that has befallen the family - they can all easily imagine the anxiety and pain that a mother or a father must feel in such a situation - take their side right away. The investigator, however, cannot lose sight of his objectives. He has to devote all his efforts to the discovery of the truth in order to bring justice to the only true victim: the child.

One day, we were all together at the PJ in Portimão - inspectors and negotiators, members of Scotland Yard and the Leicestershire police - waiting for a contact to define the place and the conditions for the handing over of the money in Holland; when the tension was at its height and we were all holding our breath, Gerald McCann displayed a nonchalance that surprised all of the police officers present, including the English. The atmosphere got heavier as the waiting drew out, but McCann, relaxed, was reading trivia on the internet and discussing rugby and football with the English police, while licking a lollipop. On the telephone, he laughed with friends who called him. Perhaps this was nervousness; sometimes it's totally displaced, given what is at stake at the time. His attitude shocked. When, two days later the dutch police informed us that the individual had been arrested, that he was not holding any information and had lied from start to finish with the sole objective of extorting money from the couple, we were not surprised. (TOTL)

Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1286 on: July 15, 2015, 01:05:21 AM »
Amaral is not there to get close and make friends with suspects. The job of the police is to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.

A common sense rule, however, says doubt their word, without this meaning that they are to be considered as suspects. The information they provide must be cross-checked against other witness statements, in order to evaluate their veracity and credibility. The public in general, deeply touched by the misfortune that has befallen the family - they can all easily imagine the anxiety and pain that a mother or a father must feel in such a situation - take their side right away. The investigator, however, cannot lose sight of his objectives. He has to devote all his efforts to the discovery of the truth in order to bring justice to the only true victim: the child.

One day, we were all together at the PJ in Portimão - inspectors and negotiators, members of Scotland Yard and the Leicestershire police - waiting for a contact to define the place and the conditions for the handing over of the money in Holland; when the tension was at its height and we were all holding our breath, Gerald McCann displayed a nonchalance that surprised all of the police officers present, including the English. The atmosphere got heavier as the waiting drew out, but McCann, relaxed, was reading trivia on the internet and discussing rugby and football with the English police, while licking a lollipop. On the telephone, he laughed with friends who called him. Perhaps this was nervousness; sometimes it's totally displaced, given what is at stake at the time. His attitude shocked. When, two days later the dutch police informed us that the individual had been arrested, that he was not holding any information and had lied from start to finish with the sole objective of extorting money from the couple, we were not surprised. (TOTL)

 What nonsense.  Mr Amaral must have been watching too many re-runs of "Kojak" for his equilibrium.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1287 on: July 15, 2015, 08:12:36 AM »
Amaral is not there to get close and make friends with suspects. The job of the police is to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice.

A common sense rule, however, says doubt their word, without this meaning that they are to be considered as suspects. The information they provide must be cross-checked against other witness statements, in order to evaluate their veracity and credibility. The public in general, deeply touched by the misfortune that has befallen the family - they can all easily imagine the anxiety and pain that a mother or a father must feel in such a situation - take their side right away. The investigator, however, cannot lose sight of his objectives. He has to devote all his efforts to the discovery of the truth in order to bring justice to the only true victim: the child.

One day, we were all together at the PJ in Portimão - inspectors and negotiators, members of Scotland Yard and the Leicestershire police - waiting for a contact to define the place and the conditions for the handing over of the money in Holland; when the tension was at its height and we were all holding our breath, Gerald McCann displayed a nonchalance that surprised all of the police officers present, including the English. The atmosphere got heavier as the waiting drew out, but McCann, relaxed, was reading trivia on the internet and discussing rugby and football with the English police, while licking a lollipop. On the telephone, he laughed with friends who called him. Perhaps this was nervousness; sometimes it's totally displaced, given what is at stake at the time. His attitude shocked. When, two days later the dutch police informed us that the individual had been arrested, that he was not holding any information and had lied from start to finish with the sole objective of extorting money from the couple, we were not surprised. (TOTL)
[/b]
And if you believe that you'll believe anything IMO.      If you think Gerry was responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, do you honestly think that he would be so stupid as to behave in the manner Amaral describes at such a time?  Do you really think he would even be taking calls from his friends - let alone having a laugh with them whilst waiting for what could be a massively important phone call? 

 If he was the guilty person, then he would have to be completely mad to behave like that in front of so many of the very police officers he wanted to convince that  Madeleine had been abducted.  Common sense please!

It's far more likely IMO that the UK officers tried to relieve the tension he must have been feeling as the time ticked by - by talking to him about football.    If it happened at all.   

I suppose you also believe Amaral's description of how Kate behaved (the sofa incident) too where he talks as if he was there with her.   Or his description of her 'inappropriate' behaviour when they were called back to the police station on 4th May - he wasn't there either. 

The first time they laid eyes on oneanother was 11th December 2009 at court and as Kate says in her book about that occasion -  ''It's extraordinary he could have said and written so many awful things about a person he had never met''

So I ask again - if it was perfectly normal procedure for the Lead investigator NOT to have any contact with the McCanns, then why did he go out of his way to hide that fact - both in his book and TV interviews?  Even when he was given the opportunity to admit the true facts - he studiously avoided doing so.   
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Benice

Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1288 on: July 15, 2015, 08:35:32 AM »
I suppose it depends what you mean by met.  He certainly was around when they were interviewed but I don't believe he was formally introduced or shook hands.  If I am wrong no doubt someone will point it out.

The Portuguese like the Spanish are suspicious of the police given the history of the countries where police forces were aligned to the ruling elite and tended to dispense justice on a partisan basis.

Quote from Kate's book

And so it was that on 11th December 2009 I first laid eyes on Sr Goncalo Amaral.  It was also the first time he had laid eyes on me.  It is extraordinary that he could have said and written so many awful things about a person he had never met.
End quote

Regarding your second para.  I don't believe that people who are suspicious and scared of their own police force would think it was good idea to approach them with a complaint about them.

I do sometimes wonder whether fear of the police resulted in Portugese people who may have had information about this case not coming forward because they were too scared of what might happen to them.   Smithman is one example IMO.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The tapas group and the 'reconstitution' that was never to take place.
« Reply #1289 on: July 15, 2015, 09:50:10 AM »
There are no excuses for not attending a reconstruction, unless you have something to hide.