No evidence of any crime by the parents and no evidence of an abduction?

[stephen25000]

Meanwhile in the real world what exactly have SY found ?

Ah yes , 'persons of interest', after I believe £6,000,000 or so being spent , and of course .ongoing.

Reasons for mccanns hiding what really happened to Madeleine, there are quite a few. .

If it was proved that Madeleine suffered a fatal accident in the apartment and the parents were negligent in their childcare.................END OF CAREERS.

[gilet]

It's the simplest solution & doesn't require the invention of an abductor, and all the further speculation that goes with him/her, or collusion between the entire T9.

But as I keep reminding you. Making up stories or scenarios is one thing. Offering any evidence to support those stories is another.

What you seem to forget is that evidence is needed otherwise you are just posting potentially serious libel.

Now do you have any evidence at all? Remember this thread is about evidence not about guesswork.

[Wonderfulspam]

For me, there is no clear evidence of abduction and no clear evidence of parental involvement which leaves anybody who wishes to form an opinion on one side of the fence or the other.

I would very much like to believe the McCanns had no involvement but what keeps me on the other side of the fence is the sheer volume of anomalies that have surrounded events from the very beginning. The simple fact is they arouse suspicion in me that should not under normal circumstances be present.

Why is that suspicion there? Maybe because of the things Pathfinder or Slartibartfast listed? Or maybe because the McCanns have voluntarily put themselves in the spotlight like nobody has ever done before in similar circumstances and something about their behaviour has led to me being unable to trust them?

Whatever the reason, it should be pretty easy for me to believe in abduction but yet I just don't and as yet no argument that I've heard has changed my view. Why should it be so hard to convince myself and others about abduction?

 

[stephen25000]

The trouble is that there is no evidence which can prove the guess which you are making as to what happened.

Can you provide any evidence that the McCanns were involved in any crime or not, because nobody so far has managed to do so either in the real world or on this thread?

As it stands there is no proof of anything.

The case was shelved due to lack of evidence.

What have SY produced after spending several millions of taxpayers money ?

Nothing, apart 'from persons of interest'.

Has there been a sign or trace of Madelene in nearly 7 years ?

No.

Have SY the power to act in this case ?

No.

So what do we have ?

Inconclusive evidence from the forensic examination of the samples taken.

No evidence of abduction.

...and the rest ?

[gilet]

What senario?.

A child went missing and was never seen again. Have I named anybody responsible?

The scenario which you so rapidly and enthusiastically praised just a few posts ago. Do not try to pretend that you did not heap praise on that scenario now or have you forgotten what you posted so quickly?

I have no idea why you are asking whether you have named anyone, that is not the point of the post you are replying to.

I simply asked if you had any evidence to support the scenario which you so clearly supported? Do you have any or not?

[pathfinder73]

This smacks of desperation.

Do you actually stick to a routine on holiday? Do you not take opportunities to see new things, do new things if the chance arises?

And a couple of inconsistencies between statements, some made months after the event. Would you not find it even more suspicious if the statements matched in every single detail. Most people would. And do you think SY didn't notice these or do you think they completely ignored them before they said after a full review and further investigation (which may have included further questioning of the witnesses) that neither the parents, nor the friends were suspects or persons of interest?

I don't think so. Detectives are looking for the abnormal. First kids routine change of the week happening before the child's disappearance alarm bells are ringing! Only a fool would think otherwise. Look at the recent Kular case. She said Mikaeel's normal routine had changed and was lying to cover up his death.

[jassi]

The scenario which you so rapidly and enthusiastically praised just a few posts ago. Do not try to pretend that you did not heap praise on that scenario now or have you forgotten what you posted so quickly?

I have no idea why you are asking whether you have named anyone, that is not the point of the post you are replying to.

I simply asked if you had any evidence to support the scenario which you so clearly supported? Do you have any or not?

As I recall, that simple solution said that a child had died and been disposed of in a skip. I agreed that it was a simple solution and one that was difficult to refute.

You have a very nasty habit of reading what you wish to read, rather than what is written.

[pathfinder73]

As I recall, that simple solution said that a child had died and been disposed of in a skip. I agreed that it was a simple solution and one that was difficult to refute.

You have a very nasty habit of reading what you wish to read, rather than what is written.

I would have liked to have seen photos of that building site behind the church at the time.

[gilet]

As it stands there is no proof of anything.

The case was shelved due to lack of evidence.

What have SY produced after spending several millions of taxpayers money ?

Nothing, apart 'from persons of interest'.

Has there been a sign or trace of Madelene in nearly 7 years /

No.

Have SY the power to act in this case ?

No.

So what do we have ?

Inconclusive evidence from the forensic examination of the samples taken.

No evidence of abduction.

...and the rest ?

NO PROOF OF ANYTHING.

Thank you for admitting that fact at last.

Not only is there no proof, though, but:

There is no evidence of an abduction which I stated in the opening post. That is not in dispute.

There is no evidence of any crime by the McCanns either. For some reason you always fail to state that fact, a sure sign that you are biased I would suggest.

And there is no evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead. The inconclusive nature of the forensic samples you referred to relates to none of them being conclusively related to Madeleine. Even where the samples to be related to Madeleine they would provide no evidence of death.

And though your point about SY not having jurisdiction is off topic, I will respond to it for completeness. Though they have no direct jurisdiction, do you seriously believe that were they to find something of a crucial nature in the case, that the PJ and PT Judiciary would not react to that and deal with it? That there are two forces working on discovering the fate of Madeleine is something we should be glad about, in my opinion. But clearly you just think their attempts to discover what happened to Madeleine are a waste of time. Obviously we don't have the same desire to make sure that everything possible is done to seek this child and to seek justice for this child?

[Wonderfulspam]

I don't think so. Detectives are looking for the abnormal. First kids routine change of the week happening before the child's disappearance alarm bells are ringing! Only a fool would think otherwise. Look at the recent Kular case. She said Mikaeel's normal routine had changed.

Yes but the McCanns are not suspects, SY are investigating 'a criminal act by a stranger' so they must have already been re interviewed, all the discrepancies cleared up & ruled out blahdy blahdy blah.

[gilet]

For me, there is no clear evidence of abduction and no clear evidence of parental involvement which leaves anybody who wishes to form an opinion on one side of the fence or the other.

I would very much like to believe the McCanns had no involvement but what keeps me on the other side of the fence is the sheer volume of anomalies that have surrounded events from the very beginning. The simple fact is they arouse suspicion in me that should not under normal circumstances be present.

Why is that suspicion there? Maybe because of the things Pathfinder or Slartibartfast listed? Or maybe because the McCanns have voluntarily put themselves in the spotlight like nobody has ever done before in similar circumstances and something about their behaviour has led to me being unable to trust them?

Whatever the reason, it should be pretty easy for me to believe in abduction but yet I just don't and as yet no argument that I've heard has changed my view. Why should it be so hard to convince myself and others about abduction?

Suspicion is one thing. When that turns to outright libel and hateful abuse as it does in other places then that is entirely wrong.

When it becomes spurious scenarios for which not one tiny bit of evidence can be produced, in my opinon that is also wrong.

As for your inability to believe in abduction, I admit with the plethora of posts raising every possible suspicion on such grounds as blinks, a few inconsistencies in statements, a giggle or two over a few balloons, misinterpretation of DNA evidence such as that oft repeated mantra of 15 out of 19 and the dog alerts being seen as evidence when Grime himself is clear they are not, it is difficult to remain open-minded but that is what genuine seekers of truth must do.

[gilet]

Yes but the McCanns are not suspects, SY are investigating 'a criminal act by a stranger' so they must have already been re interviewed, all the discrepancies cleared up & ruled out blahdy blahdy blah.

The first part of your post is probably very accurate but unfortunately you seem to mock yourself for even posting it by the time your post ends.

You have no evidence of any crime by the McCanns do you? That is what I am taking from that comment about SY having stated that the McCanns are not suspects. And because you cannot bring yourself to admit that you resort to a stupid "blahdy blah" phrase to hide your inability.

If you have any evidence for your scenario or for the question in the opening post then do let us know. But as nobody has managed to provide any so far I doubt you will manage it.

[stephen25000]

NO PROOF OF ANYTHING.

Thank you for admitting that fact at last.

Not only is there no proof, though, but:

There is no evidence of an abduction which I stated in the opening post. That is not in dispute.

There is no evidence of any crime by the McCanns either. For some reason you always fail to state that fact, a sure sign that you are biased I would suggest.

And there is no evidence that Madeleine McCann is dead. The inconclusive nature of the forensic samples you referred to relates to none of them being conclusively related to Madeleine. Even where the samples to be related to Madeleine they would provide no evidence of death.

And though your point about SY not having jurisdiction is off topic, I will respond to it for completeness. Though they have no direct jurisdiction, do you seriously believe that were they to find something of a crucial nature in the case, that the PJ and PT Judiciary would not react to that and deal with it? That there are two forces working on discovering the fate of Madeleine is something we should be glad about, in my opinion. But clearly you just think their attempts to discover what happened to Madeleine are a waste of time. Obviously we don't have the same desire to make sure that everything possible is done to seek this child and to seek justice for this child?

I judge SY by their lack of results.

i.e. they have found nothing.

The mccanns, no proof they have told the truth, and that's a fact as well.

They  claimed they exhibited responsible parenting. NO THEY DIDN'T.

THEY and only they are responsible for Madeleine's predicament.

Surely you must agree on that ?

[Wonderfulspam]

Suspicion is one thing. When that turns to outright libel and hateful abuse as it does in other places then that is entirely wrong.

When it becomes spurious scenarios for which not one tiny bit of evidence can be produced, in my opinon that is also wrong.

As for your inability to believe in abduction, I admit with the plethora of posts raising every possible suspicion on such grounds as blinks, a few inconsistencies in statements, a giggle or two over a few balloons, misinterpretation of DNA evidence such as that oft repeated mantra of 15 out of 19 and the dog alerts being seen as evidence when Grime himself is clear they are not, it is difficult to remain open-minded but that is what genuine seekers of truth must do.

That's abduction out of the window too then.

[gilet]

I judge SY by their lack of results.

i.e. they have found nothing.

The mccanns, no proof they have told the truth, and that's a fact as well.

They  claimed they exhibited responsible parenting. NO THEY DIDN'T.

THEY and only they are responsible for Madeleine's predicament.

Surely you must agree on that ?

Just to correct one point in your post.

You are pre-judging SY, not judging them as you have nothing to judge. You do not have the remotest idea what they have found so far as they have not chosen to share all their information.

They appear to have found out one thing for certain. And have stated that fact very clearly. That finding is that neither the McCanns, nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest.

You choose to disbelieve the Police. I prefer to wait for their findings.

It is not up to the McCanns to prove they have told the truth. Your abysmal understanding of law shines through that ridiculous claim you make about them. When that is allied to your inability to believe what the police tell you, it suggests you should get a better understanding of law and a better sense of proportion in dealing with UK police forces.

And then you go completely OFF TOPIC by resorting to your mantra of parental blame. You don't agree they exhibited parental responsibility and cannot get that fixation from your mind when discussing the other matters can you. It is not the topic of this thread. If you wish to discuss it then do so on a thread of your own. If you continue to attempt to discuss it here it will be blindingly obvious that you are trying to disrupt and that you cannot manage to discuss the topic of the thread at hand.

Now do you have any evidence of the McCanns being involved in any crime (against their daughter or any other crime at all)?