Author Topic: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...  (Read 39705 times)

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Offline Brietta

Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« on: May 13, 2014, 01:49:30 AM »
Tapas Nine witness says 'Mediterranean man took Madeleine'
By DAVID WILKES and VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 10:12 20 November 2007

The woman who believes she saw Madeleine McCann being abducted revealed yesterday that she has never named Robert Murat to police as the man she saw.

Instead, Jane Tanner, 36, thinks he was "Mediterranean looking".

Miss Tanner, one of the so- called Tapas Nine, says she remains "stricken with guilt" over failing to prevent the abduction.

"I felt I could have stopped this all from happening," she said. "I think of that every day. I have to live with it for ever, that guilt is never going to go away."

But she admitted: "I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not.

"I would say the man I saw was more local, or Mediterranean looking, rather than British. He had dark, almost black, long hair and had swarthy skin.
 
"He was dressed in that sort of smart casual way European people dress."
 
Miss Tanner, a mother of two, said Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry have told her she shouldn't feel any guilt about what happened.

Though some details of Miss Tanner's interview emerged at the weekend, it was broadcast in full on BBC1's Panorama programme last night.
 
She spoke out as it emerged that the private detectives hired by the McCanns are investigating claims that a witness saw a child who looked like Madeleine with a couple on May 5, two days after the girl disappeared in Portugal.
 
The unnamed witness was said to have identified one of the couple as Michaela Walczuch, the girlfriend of Murat.
In a picture yesterday, she bore an uncanny likeness to a figure drawn by a forensic artist from Miss Tanner's recollections.
 
Although the impression, commissioned by the McCanns, has no facial features, the length of the figure's brown hair is like Miss Walczuch's.
 
The build of Murat's girlfriend and her style of clothing also match the impression.
 
German-born Miss Walczuch, 34, refused to comment when approached outside her home in Lagos, which she shares with her estranged husband Luis Antonio and their eightyearold daughter.
 
Her lawyer later described the allegation against her as ridiculous.
 
Murat, 33, who remains an official suspect in the case, lives in Praia da Luz with his 71-year-old mother Jenny.
He has insisted he was at home the night Madeleine vanished. Miss Tanner appealed to people to "rack their brains" to see if they know the man she saw.
 
Tears welling in her eyes, marketing executive Miss Tanner, of Exeter, said: "Every day I see him there, striding away, carrying Madeleine away and I try desperately to remember more detail.
 
"I think about it over and over again. It's horrible.
 
"He had his face turned away from me, sort of sideways and it was very dark. I just didn't see it properly, I wish to God I had."
 
Miss Tanner, the first of the seven friends who were on holiday with Mr and Mrs McCann to speak out, says she saw the man carrying a child around 9.15pm on May 3 as she made her way back to her apartment at the Mark Warner holiday complex in Praia da Luz.
She was holidaying with her partner Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, Madeleine's parents and five other friends.
The group were taking it in turns to check on their children who they had left in their apartments while they dined together at a nearby tapas bar.

Explaining why the group had left their children in their rooms - something Mr and Mrs McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have been heavily criticised for - Miss Tanner said: "I think we were lulled into a sense of security by the fact that it was very much a family resort and quite quiet."

It was on one of her regular checks to see her two daughters, age two and four, that Miss Tanner saw the suspect, about ten to 15ft in front of her, cross from left to right, carrying a child.
 
She said that when she was later told Madeleine had disappeared "the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495092/Tapas-Nine-witness-says-Mediterranean-man-took-Madeleine.html#ixzz0fQNlbj4t
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 12:50:34 AM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 03:32:42 AM »
Tapas Nine witness says 'Mediterranean man took Madeleine'
By DAVID WILKES and VANESSA ALLEN
Last updated at 10:12 20 November 2007

The woman who believes she saw Madeleine McCann being abducted revealed yesterday that she has never named Robert Murat to police as the man she saw.

Instead, Jane Tanner, 36, thinks he was "Mediterranean looking".

Miss Tanner, one of the so- called Tapas Nine, says she remains "stricken with guilt" over failing to prevent the abduction.

"I felt I could have stopped this all from happening," she said. "I think of that every day. I have to live with it for ever, that guilt is never going to go away."

But she admitted: "I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not.

"I would say the man I saw was more local, or Mediterranean looking, rather than British. He had dark, almost black, long hair and had swarthy skin.
 
"He was dressed in that sort of smart casual way European people dress."
 
Miss Tanner, a mother of two, said Madeleine's parents Kate and Gerry have told her she shouldn't feel any guilt about what happened.

Though some details of Miss Tanner's interview emerged at the weekend, it was broadcast in full on BBC1's Panorama programme last night.
 
She spoke out as it emerged that the private detectives hired by the McCanns are investigating claims that a witness saw a child who looked like Madeleine with a couple on May 5, two days after the girl disappeared in Portugal.
 
The unnamed witness was said to have identified one of the couple as Michaela Walczuch, the girlfriend of Murat.
In a picture yesterday, she bore an uncanny likeness to a figure drawn by a forensic artist from Miss Tanner's recollections.
 
Although the impression, commissioned by the McCanns, has no facial features, the length of the figure's brown hair is like Miss Walczuch's.
 
The build of Murat's girlfriend and her style of clothing also match the impression.
 
German-born Miss Walczuch, 34, refused to comment when approached outside her home in Lagos, which she shares with her estranged husband Luis Antonio and their eightyearold daughter.
 
Her lawyer later described the allegation against her as ridiculous.
 
Murat, 33, who remains an official suspect in the case, lives in Praia da Luz with his 71-year-old mother Jenny.
He has insisted he was at home the night Madeleine vanished. Miss Tanner appealed to people to "rack their brains" to see if they know the man she saw.
 
Tears welling in her eyes, marketing executive Miss Tanner, of Exeter, said: "Every day I see him there, striding away, carrying Madeleine away and I try desperately to remember more detail.
 
"I think about it over and over again. It's horrible.
 
"He had his face turned away from me, sort of sideways and it was very dark. I just didn't see it properly, I wish to God I had."
 
Miss Tanner, the first of the seven friends who were on holiday with Mr and Mrs McCann to speak out, says she saw the man carrying a child around 9.15pm on May 3 as she made her way back to her apartment at the Mark Warner holiday complex in Praia da Luz.
She was holidaying with her partner Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, Madeleine's parents and five other friends.
The group were taking it in turns to check on their children who they had left in their apartments while they dined together at a nearby tapas bar.

Explaining why the group had left their children in their rooms - something Mr and Mrs McCann, of Rothley, Leicestershire, have been heavily criticised for - Miss Tanner said: "I think we were lulled into a sense of security by the fact that it was very much a family resort and quite quiet."

It was on one of her regular checks to see her two daughters, age two and four, that Miss Tanner saw the suspect, about ten to 15ft in front of her, cross from left to right, carrying a child.
 
She said that when she was later told Madeleine had disappeared "the image of that man carrying the child came into my head and I felt physically sick".
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495092/Tapas-Nine-witness-says-Mediterranean-man-took-Madeleine.html#ixzz0fQNlbj4t
[/quote]

Jane Tanner positively identified Robert Murat as being the person she saw carrying "Madeleine".

Don't know very much about this case, do you?


Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.

- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 05:46:15 PM by Mr Moderator »

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2014, 10:18:03 AM »
Jane Tanner positively identified Robert Murat as being the person she saw carrying "Madeleine".

Don't know very much about this case, do you?


Jane Tanner was placed inside a police surveillance van (with windows that allow you to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near apartment 5A, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child had made, according to Jane Tanner.

Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognised the way he walked, with no doubt.

- 'A Verdade da Mentira', 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie' by Gonçalo Amaral


This forum has had a very recent discussion re ~ Topic: The Jane Tanner surveillance of Robert Murat episode, might be well worth revisiting.

As for me, I prefer things to come from the horse’s mouth rather than third party or from blinkered internet hysteria. 
So when Jane Tanner states, "I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not."


So unless you can come up with a cite from a witness statement stating the contrary, that will be good enough for me, as it obviously was for Mr Murat whose alleged legal action against Jane Tanner seemed to vanish in a puff of smoke.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2014, 02:27:16 PM »
A positive sighting of Murat carrying Madeleine that night would surely have made the pages of the Police Files wouldn't it?  Or did the police forget to take a statement from JT about this alleged sighting of Murat?

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2014, 11:59:42 PM »
This forum has had a very recent discussion re ~ Topic: The Jane Tanner surveillance of Robert Murat episode, might be well worth revisiting.

As for me, I prefer things to come from the horse’s mouth rather than third party or from blinkered internet hysteria. 
So when Jane Tanner states, "I simply don't know if I could identify again the man I saw that night. I've never pointed the finger at Robert Murat because I simply don't know if it was him or not."


So unless you can come up with a cite from a witness statement stating the contrary, that will be good enough for me, as it obviously was for Mr Murat whose alleged legal action against Jane Tanner seemed to vanish in a puff of smoke.

It is becoming glaringly obvious you have not read Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

Absolutely everything you demand to know, is contained within those pages.

Indeed, I don't know how anyone could call themselves "unbiased" if the only reading they have done is MSM and the publications of the McCann.

So if you want something "out of the horses mouth", then Amaral's book is ESSENTIAL READING before you come on a forum being all superior and dismissive.

Amaral recounts Tanner positively identifying Murat from inside a police vehicle.



Offline misty

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 01:03:37 AM »
It is becoming glaringly obvious you have not read Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

Absolutely everything you demand to know, is contained within those pages.

Indeed, I don't know how anyone could call themselves "unbiased" if the only reading they have done is MSM and the publications of the McCann.

So if you want something "out of the horses mouth", then Amaral's book is ESSENTIAL READING before you come on a forum being all superior and dismissive.

Are you therefore stating that Amaral was in that police van & heard Jane give a positive ID, or was he merely told by a third party? It would be helpful to have a link to the statements officially confirming exactly what was said.
Amaral recounts Tanner positively identifying Murat from inside a police vehicle.

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 01:15:22 AM »
From The Truth of the Lie -

Summary of comments on Robert Murat from Gonçalo Amaral's book 'The Truth of the Lie' Gazeta Digital 
 
29 July 2008
 
* On May 11, Amaral himself walked the path in the same direction where Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child, on the night of May 3
 
* He saw Murat's home and Murat going out, with his mother and asked a police officer who he was. The officer said he knew him and he was translating to police
 
* Back in the crisis room, more information was available (Lorraine' suspicions, a lot of curiosity about the investigation, from Murat, and so on)
 
* Profilers from CEOP start to "work" on Murat's profile, his home was put under close and sophisticated electronic surveillance
 
* Jane Tanner was placed inside a surveillance van from police (windows that allow to look outside, from the van, without being seen), the van was parked in a strategic position, near the A5 apartment, and PJ investigators took Murat with them, making exactly the same walk the man carrying a child has made, according to Jane Tanner
 
* Jane Tanner looked at Murat walking and told police she was sure he was the same man, she recognized the way he walked, with no doubt


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id137.html

Offline misty

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 01:22:06 AM »
May we have a statement from the official files, please, not  quote from the book of the ex-Lead Detective?

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 01:41:26 AM »
It is becoming glaringly obvious you have not read Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

Absolutely everything you demand to know, is contained within those pages.

Indeed, I don't know how anyone could call themselves "unbiased" if the only reading they have done is MSM and the publications of the McCann.

So if you want something "out of the horses mouth", then Amaral's book is ESSENTIAL READING before you come on a forum being all superior and dismissive.

Amaral recounts Tanner positively identifying Murat from inside a police vehicle.

I am going to be "all superior and dismissive" ... yet again ... and I am going to quote from "the horse's mouth" yet again, or rather from Jane Tanner's rogatory interview.
It is necessary to keep repeating the truth from reliable sources rather than forum myths which are being repeated rather than the truth of the matter.

~~   ~~   ~~   ~~

4078    “I know this seems like an obvious question, which I think I know the answer to, because I’ve seen the artist’s impression, did you see the man’s face?”

Reply    “No, no, not, no, I mean, just the hair, well not, not that I could remember to give details, give details to”.

4078    “Now you are left with that mental image in your head about the man carrying the child”.

Reply    “Umm”.

4078    “And you said, you described his hair quite well.  Having seen MURAT then and obviously in the papers since, could you link the two of those?”

Reply    “I don’t think so.  I mean, I don’t, phew, I don’t, I don’t think it, no, there doesn’t, there’s no, but then the person I see in the paper doesn’t really look like my recollection of the person I met on the way to meet Bob SMALL.  It’s really annoying because normally I would have probably taken more notice but I was so worried about what I was going to do, because I didn’t know at this point at all, I didn’t really take any notice, but I think it was too short and I remember it being, being long into the neck and not so.  Again, I don’t really, when I saw Robert MURAT outside his house he looked quite little to me, but then when you see him on the telly he seems quite bit, so I can’t, again, I don’t think the build, the build was right, I don’t”.

4078    “So you don’t feel, in your heart of hearts”.

Reply    “No”.
4078    “You don’t feel it was the same person?”

Reply    “No, I don’t, no”.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id222.html

Jane Tanner did not identify Robert Murat as the person she saw carrying a child on the 3rd May 2007.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2014, 01:54:29 AM »
... Jane Tanner did not identify Robert Murat as the person she saw carrying a child on the 3rd May 2007.
A refreshingly pleasant blast of common sense.
She saw and spoke to Robert on her way to the surveillance vehicle.
It seems glaringly obvious that if she thought was the man she saw evening May 3rd, she would have said so even before getting into the surveillance vehicle.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 01:57:10 AM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 02:07:22 AM »
... BE CONSISTENT ...
JT's account is a hundred times more consistent than that of those who still insult this honest witness.
Look at the insulters' claims back then - they claimed she invented seeing a man and child.
But now the insulters' claims, although very vague and difficult to pin down, have changed because of Mr Redwood's statement, and generally admit the possibility that she did see a man and child.
How inconsistent is that? To first claim she didn't see anyone, then admit she did.

Offline Brietta

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2014, 03:37:35 PM »
Jane Tanner’s description of the person she saw carrying a child has been consistent.

She gave three official statements to the police - 4th May, 2007 - 10th May 2007 and a Rogatory Interview on 8th April 2008.  In none of them was her statement changed. 

Jane Tanner was interviewed by Jeremy Vine for Panorama on 19th November 2007.  She stuck very firmly to the events she had witnessed on 3rd May and did not deviate from the evidence given in her statements to the police.
The transcript of that interview can be read at ~  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm
   
The assumption that she deviated from her description is derived from newspaper reports and is made in various internet blogs which have consistently campaigned against the Drs McCann. 

It should be remembered that Jane Tanner received damages from some newspapers in which she had been misrepresented as well as an apology.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 05:23:47 AM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2014, 04:29:09 PM »
It is becoming glaringly obvious you have not read Amaral's book, The Truth of the Lie.

Absolutely everything you demand to know, is contained within those pages.

Indeed, I don't know how anyone could call themselves "unbiased" if the only reading they have done is MSM and the publications of the McCann.

So if you want something "out of the horses mouth", then Amaral's book is ESSENTIAL READING before you come on a forum being all superior and dismissive.

Amaral recounts Tanner positively identifying Murat from inside a police vehicle.

As all the contents of Amaral's book are alleged to be contained in the files up until he was taken off the investigation, could you point me to which of Jane's two statements states this?

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2014, 08:01:00 PM »
As all the contents of Amaral's book are alleged to be contained in the files up until he was taken off the investigation, could you point me to which of Jane's two statements states this?


*sigh*

I love how Team McCann assume that every single thing from the investigation made it into the archive report.

Clearly, this is ridiculous.

There are thousands of pages in the archive report, but HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in the investigation.

As the investigation was shelved NOT finalised, why on earth would you think the entire contents would be made public?


Offline sadie

Re: Jane Tanner claims she never identified Murat but...
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2014, 09:31:58 PM »
A positive sighting of Murat carrying Madeleine that night would surely have made the pages of the Police Files wouldn't it?  Or did the police forget to take a statement from JT about this alleged sighting of Murat?

Exactly