Jeremy Bamber - Debunking Mike Tesko's strange theories

[Dillon]

Is this not a bit different ? You are a young man of 24 and ( assuming his innocence ) suddenly find that your family has been brutally butchered in the house where you were brought up. Not long after, you are selling the contents of the house ( all illegally incidently as probate had not been granted ), trying to sell photos of your late adopted sister to the tabloid press, besides the holidaying and general junketing. This surely is not just putting on a brave face, business as normal etc ?

[John]

Is this not a bit different ? You are a young man of 24 and ( assuming his innocence ) suddenly find that your family has been brutally butchered in the house where you were brought up. Not long after, you are selling the contents of the house ( all illegally incidently as probate had not been granted ), trying to sell photos of your late adopted sister to the tabloid press, besides the holidaying and general junketing. This surely is not just putting on a brave face, business as normal etc ?

You are correct Dillon.  This was certainly not normal activity by any means in the face of a bereavement. 

This was pure greed and desperation to get money and get it at any cost.  I still think we don't have the whole truth behind these events.  Why did he need that money in such a rush and why the trips abroad in swift succession so soon after the murders. It can take weeks and months for probate to be received and especially in a case where there have been 5 murders of people who all stood to benefit.

I definitely smell a rat.

[starryian]

Abs, I agree with you.
I'm probably one of the abnormal one's that people keep refering too. I didn't break down and/or particularly change anything when I've lost 3 out of 4 Grandparents. I loved them and I thought of myself very lucky to have had a full set of grandparents up to the age of 34. I was however devestated that my Granddad suffered at the end because no-one deserves to die like he did. I suppose they were old and they'd had a mainly good and long life.
I was devestated whe I lost my neighbour last year at 37 years old, my best friend when she was 40 and a number of other friends young but again, I can't say I really did anything I wouldn't normally do from day to day and it was fairly much from an outsiders view 'business as usual' but thats not to say people who show no outward signs of grief aren't suffering, all it means is it's not on public display.
I don't know if it's wise to judge a book by it's cover, just go where the evidence takes you.

I agree Joanne, but I think what you are referring to is a little different to this; these people did not die a natural death or by accident but were murdered in the most brutal way imaginable. Your ENTIRE family including two 6 year old boys. Admittedly you can go in to some kind of shock or do odd things, but this does not in any way explain Bamber callous actions after the murders - he tried to sell his dead sisters photos to a journalist, he behaved with callous indifference and told Julie Mugford that 'I did everyone a favour' He smirked, giggled and claimed that he 'should have been an actor' the morning after the murders.
I do not call this 'grief' even by the supporters standards and not by any stretch of my imagination.
Bamber has relied on just the excuses given to explain away his behaviour. Callousness and the very human emotion of grief are two very different things - Bamber's supporters have tried to convince everyone that the two can be confused.

[only me]

I also agree with Abs.  Again, in a semi-professional capacity, I've seen some really peculiar reactions to loss and grief, and if I'm honest I haven't always reacted to grief in a classical way myself.  I've learned over the years that you can never judge someone by their response in an extreme situation, so I don't judge JB's case by the way he reacted after the murders - it isn't the deciding factor for me. 

I just don't see any physical evidence that Sheila committed the murders.  That's the beginning and the end of it for me, really.

[starryian]

I also agree with Abs.  Again, in a semi-professional capacity, I've seen some really peculiar reactions to loss and grief, and if I'm honest I haven't always reacted to grief in a classical way myself.  I've learned over the years that you can never judge someone by their response in an extreme situation, so I don't judge JB's case by the way he reacted after the murders - it isn't the deciding factor for me. 

I just don't see any physical evidence that Sheila committed the murders.  That's the beginning and the end of it for me, really.

Does this include trying to sell his dead sisters photos to a Sun reporter? You dont blame him??
I am utterly flabberghasted by that statement. No matter what there is NO excuse for the behaviour he displayed...........NONE. As in most things there are limits and this was WAY beyond the pale.
For me this spoke volumes about Bamber.

[goatboy]

For me his behaviour after the murders is by no means indicative of his guilt. However, put together with all of the other factors (having the means, motive and opportunity to commit murder; the fact that Sheila could not have murdered those four people in this way; Sheila's blood in the silencer; Julie's confession) his behaviour is merely the icing on the cake. I agree people can grieve in different ways, but it is a matter of fact that he attempted to sell nude photos of Sheila to the press very soon afterwards, he visited his solicitor the day after to talk about getting his inheritance. A grief stricken person would not do these things.

[only me]

I'm sorry if you don't believe me Ian, but I've seen families almost break down because one persons response to loss has been what was considered abnormal.  There's one particular episode that's sticking in my mind, but I don't particularly want to put it on a public forum, because the events were very specific, and were also quite public.  I'll have a chat with my conscience, and I may PM you the details.

I'd just like to reaffirm that I believe that JB is guilty as sin - but it's the physical evidence that leads me to that conclusion.   

[John]

I also agree with Abs.  Again, in a semi-professional capacity, I've seen some really peculiar reactions to loss and grief, and if I'm honest I haven't always reacted to grief in a classical way myself.  I've learned over the years that you can never judge someone by their response in an extreme situation, so I don't judge JB's case by the way he reacted after the murders - it isn't the deciding factor for me. 

I just don't see any physical evidence that Sheila committed the murders.  That's the beginning and the end of it for me, really.

Does this include trying to sell his dead sisters photos to a Sun reporter? You dont blame him??
I am utterly flabberghasted by that statement. No matter what there is NO excuse for the behaviour he displayed...........NONE. As in most things there are limits and this was WAY beyond the pale.
For me this spoke volumes about Bamber.

I can accept some strange behaviour after a bereavement but you are right, trying to sell nude or semi-nude photos of your murdered sister to the Press just doesn't cut it.

He wasn't grieving, he was bloody milking it for all he could get.

[Joanne]

I think Jeremy Bamber having killed his family, who he probably had no feelings at all for and he might have even hated them, probably thought his chickens had come home to roost, especially because he thought he was in line for a ton of money, was never going to act grief stricken and I think he probably only cried at the funeral for 'obligatory' reasons or in his mind it was the right thing to do.
He probably did cry for real when he got his sentence.

[starryian]

I'm sorry if you don't believe me Ian, but I've seen families almost break down because one persons response to loss has been what was considered abnormal.  There's one particular episode that's sticking in my mind, but I don't particularly want to put it on a public forum, because the events were very specific, and were also quite public.  I'll have a chat with my conscience, and I may PM you the details.

I'd just like to reaffirm that I believe that JB is guilty as sin - but it's the physical evidence that leads me to that conclusion.   

I think we have got crossed wires somewhat. It is not because of his lack of grief but rather it is the callous manner he behaved. I also have seen people grieve in all sorts of ways and it is totally normal. What I consider abnormal is the sheer callousness and inappropriate behaviour that he displayed. No-one has to grieve in a certain way but I do consider some actions to be way beyond the pale and highly insensitive. These were deliberate acts nothing to do with grief at all. Let us not confuse the two.
I will give you some examples; Bamber in church; Looks at his watch, yawns and states to his friends 'times up, lets get out of here!'
Outside when entering the church and out of earshot of the press ' Look at these vultures (referring to his relatives) If they think they are going to get a penny, they are very much mistaken! '
I do not consider this to be to some form of 'grief' in any means shape or form. It is acts such as these that alert the police in the first place. It indicates that there is usually something wrong or something is not quite right.
DS Stan Jones sensed Bamber was 'putting it on' outside the farm when told of the death of his family. Bamber was clearly acting. Acted out grief and real grief can be detected.
If I had witenessed this first hand I would have been extremely offended. So, too I imagine would alot of other people.

[starryian]

I think Jeremy Bamber having killed his family, who he probably had no feelings at all for and he might have even hated them, probably thought his chickens had come home to roost, especially because he thought he was in line for a ton of money, was never going to act grief stricken and I think he probably only cried at the funeral for 'obligatory' reasons or in his mind it was the right thing to do.
He probably did cry for real when he got his sentence.

I agree Joanne. Bamber had no way of knowing whether or not he was acting appropriately. At one stage he looked to be copying David Boutflour and using his grief as a template.
According to a court official at Chelmsford Crown Court, when Bamber was sentenced and led down to his cell with the judges condeming words still ringing in his ears. Bamber sat down and began to read a book. Only later as they were waiting for the prison van to collect Bamber the official looked through the spyhole in the cell door he saw Bamber crouched on his bed slowly punching his hand repeating the words 'no, no, no, no'
Being found guilty was absolutely the last thing he was expecting. Earlier he worried even his defense council by his haughty, arrogant manner who told him to 'calm it down a little' He was confident tot he point of arrogance as if totally unaware of his circumstances. The defense reminded him that 'the decision may not come back in his favour' This seems to have made no difference to his behaviour.

[John]

I think Jeremy Bamber having killed his family, who he probably had no feelings at all for and he might have even hated them, probably thought his chickens had come home to roost, especially because he thought he was in line for a ton of money, was never going to act grief stricken and I think he probably only cried at the funeral for 'obligatory' reasons or in his mind it was the right thing to do.
He probably did cry for real when he got his sentence.

The only time he showed any emotion was when the jury foreman returned the five guilty verdicts.

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/1986/10/28/AS281086001/?s=jeremy+bamber&st=0&pn=1

[Joanne]

It sounds like the judge has his measure of JB.

[John]

I find your posts most informative Ian.  You have included a lot of details which could have been lost for all sorts of reason.

I was thinking about Julie's statement and the "I should have been an actor" comment made by Jeremy bamber.  Julie had no reason to make up such a silly comment which for me makes it all the more believable.

[Joanne]

JB certainly has given oscar winning performances