What is the evidence for burglary/murder ?

[Alfred R Jones]

It has been claimed that the police are working on the hypothesis that a burglar killed Madeleine and subsequently buried her body

How would that work then  ? 

What scenario could adequately accomodate that presumption ...  and what evidence is there to support it  ?

Do you accept the possibility that Scotland Yard have some evidence which they have chosen not to share with you that might support their theory?
Would you feel happier if the words "predatory paedophile" were used instead of burglar?  Would that make more sense to you?

[icabodcrane]

It never had to be a Burglar.  It could have been a passing pervert who took the body away because he was worried about DNA from direct contact.
Everybody knows about DNA these days.

Well,  that makes more sense than the  murdering burglar hypothesis

Still doesn't tie in with these planned digs though

Supposing it happened the way you suggest,  and this monster  takes the body away to ensure his DNA will not be found on it

What would you expect him to do next  ...  or, rather,  what would the police expect him to do next  ?

Dispose of the body at sea perhaps  ?   Or bury it a long distance from the crime scene ?   Or take it somewhere isolated and burn it  ?  (  He's determined to dispose of his own DNA  more than the body remember )


Or would he bury the body a matter metres away from the apartment,  knowing that a search of the area will be underway immediately ?

I just don't think these digs are related to  any  intruder theory

[Eleanor]

Do you accept the possibility that Scotland Yard have some evidence which they have chosen not to share with you that might support their theory?
Would you feel happier if the words "predatory paedophile" were used instead of burglar?  Would that make more sense to you?

That is what it is sounding like to me.  But the fact remains that permission has been granted.  So there must be a reason.

[Alfred R Jones]

Well,  that makes more sense than the  murdering burglar hypothesis

Still doesn't tie in with these planned digs though

Supposing it happened the way you suggest,  and this monster  takes the body away to ensure his DNA will not be found on it

What would you expect him to do next  ...  or, rather,  what would the police expect him to do next  ?

Dispose of the body at sea perhaps  ?   Or bury it a long distance from the crime scene ?   Or take it somewhere isolated and burn it  ?  (  He's determined to dispose of his own DNA  more than the body remember )


Or would he bury the body a matter metres away from the apartment,  knowing that a search of the area will be underway immediately ?

I just don't think these digs are related to  any  intruder theory

So what theory does make sense to you then, seeing as you've discounted the possibility of a criminal burying Madeleine so close to the place she went missing knowing a search of the area would be underway immediately?

[stephen25000]

That is what it is sounding like to me.  But the fact remains that permission has been granted.  So there must be a reason.

Well normally in the case of a missing person, you dig to search for a body.

[Eleanor]

Well,  that makes more sense than the  murdering burglar hypothesis

Still doesn't tie in with these planned digs though

Supposing it happened the way you suggest,  and this monster  takes the body away to ensure his DNA will not be found on it

What would you expect him to do next  ...  or, rather,  what would the police expect him to do next  ?

Dispose of the body at sea perhaps  ?   Or bury it a long distance from the crime scene ?   Or take it somewhere isolated and burn it  ?  (  He's determined to dispose of his own DNA  more than the body remember )


Or would he bury the body a matter metres away from the apartment,  knowing that a search of the area will be underway immediately ?

I just don't think these digs are related to  any  intruder theory

Ah, well, I don't actually go with this theory anyway.  Just trying to help with your Thread because you seem to be trying.  Very trying, actually.  But that is by the by.

You were once vaguely pleasant to me, so  I was returning the the favour by hopefully kick starting your Thread.  I never forget a kindness, however long ago.
And I so like Icabode Crain.   Anyone who knows about him has to have some saving graces.

[icabodcrane]

So what theory does make sense to you then, seeing as you've discounted the possibility of a criminal burying Madeleine so close to the place she went missing knowing a search of the area would be underway immediately?

I think the police are digging up PDL because they have intelligence that suggests  Madeleine died in the apartment

I think that  'intelligence'  is the cadaver dog alert

That makes sense to me

[icabodcrane]

No it isn't.

What other reason would the Met have for thinking Madeleine died in the apartment  ?

I mean,  what,  other than the cadaver dog alert,  is  'suggestive'  of that  ? 

[Eleanor]

It's the most rational explanation for the digs

So Madeleine was lying around dead for at least two hours.  I hardly think so.

[Alfred R Jones]

So what exactly do you think happened? How convoluted and improbable do you want it? Something like this?

Carried dead body through town, in full view of witnesses. Buried it in a bit of wasteland. Waited a bit. Dug it back up again and put it in a freezer. Waited a bit. Took it out of freezer and stuck it in a car. Drove to Spain. Buried it again. Waited a bit. Buried freezer.

Gosh, that sounds plausible.  But we are not allowed to put into words what are in the doubter's minds, it upsets them.

[icabodcrane]

How do you know what opportunities were available to the "intruder" out of interest?

Well,   first of all,  let me make it clear that I do not believe an intruder  (  of any description  )  got into the McCanns' apartment,  murdered a child  and then took her dead body away with him

It just doesn't make sense

But let's assume, for the sake of debate,  that is what happened

You ask what opportunity I think an  intruder would have in those unlikely circumstances of disposing of the body he has inexplicably taken with him

He would surely have TRANSPORT!   ...   a  murderer would be unlikely to take a body   unless  he had transport, wouldn't you agree  ?

Afterall,   if this intruder  had  no transport then there really wouldn't be much point in taking the body in the first place ...   only to have it discovered buried practically on the doorstep   

So there is the 'opportunity  ...   because transport means distance  ...   and any disposal of the body would be as far as way as possible from the scene of the crime and imminent search

 

That's why I don't think the digging in  Praia de Luz has  anything to with an intruder

[stephen25000]

Perhaps sadie you need to be reminded the 'abduction' is merely an idea, with nae proof.

[pathfinder73]

That's not how this works on a hunch. They know for certain Smithman was carrying Madeleine away so these are to find clues on where she was taken. Starting from the wasteland where he was coming from past the Smiths onto Rua de 25 Abril and to the church vicinity.

[Alfred R Jones]

Well,   first of all,  let me make it clear that I do not believe an intruder  (  of any description  )  got into the McCanns' apartment,  murdered a child  and then took her dead body away with him

It just doesn't make sense

But let's assume, for the sake of debate,  that is what happened

You ask what opportunity I think an  intruder would have in those unlikely circumstances of disposing of the body he has inexplicably taken with him

He would surely have TRANSPORT!   ...   a  murderer would be unlikely to take a body   unless  he had transport, wouldn't you agree  ?

Afterall,   if this intruder  had  no transport then there really wouldn't be much point in taking the body in the first place ...   only to have it discovered buried practically on the doorstep   

So there is the 'opportunity  ...   because transport means distance  ...   and any disposal of the body would be as far as way as possible from the scene of the crime and imminent search

 

That's why I don't think the digging in  Praia de Luz has  anything to with an intruder

Why would you assume an intruder HAD to have transport?  What if he was a local who took the child back to his home to abuse and/or murder?  What if he did not have access to transport for body disposal?  Where would he put the body then?  Did Fred West dispose of bodies as far away as possible from the scene of his crimes? 

[icabodcrane]

Why would you assume an intruder HAD to have transport?  What if he was a local who took the child back to his home to abuse and/or murder?  What if he did not have access to transport for body disposal?  Where would he put the body then?  Did Fred West dispose of bodies as far away as possible from the scene of his crimes?

You're moving the goal posts aren't you  ?

The hypothesis we have been presented with is that a burglar murdered Madeleine and took her  dead body away with him   ...   not someone taking a living child away to abuse and murder some time later  (  that would be straight forward abduction  and not the  'burglary gone wrong'   we are being told is behind the digs  )