Madeleine McCann. Sniffer dogs brought in to help with scrubland dig.

[Brietta]

They were very much alive. That, though, does not exclude the possibility that the donor of the unidentified DNA might be dead or bleeding.

Well Mr Gordon seems to have left quite a bit to be going on with

Leicestershire Police Force
Witness Account
Statement by Paul Anthony Gordon
Occupation: Accountant
Date : 24th April 2008

CARTAS ROGATORIAS (FILE 5)
Pages 36 to 38
Witness statement of Paul Anthony Gordon (former holiday maker in Apartment 5A) 2008.04.24

- SNIP - however there was one occasion when I cut myself shaving in the bathroom of the apartment. I would say that the cut bled for about 4 5 minutes and that it took some time until the cut stopped bleeding, during which period I walked around the apartment with paper tissues trying to stop the blood.

[icabodcrane]

Hi Icabod, is there any info regarding how long this individual bled for and quantities of blood expelled ?
Was he checked for vitamin C deficiency one wonders ?

Edited to add-
Can anyone provide a name for this 'bleeding man' ?

I don't know the details Pat but this fellow who,  I presume,  was some kind of Clint Eastwood character who used an old style  cut throat razor to shave   (  you don't bleed  'profusely' from a nic using a Gilette fushion razor afterall ) apparently moved the sofa  away from the window and stood there  'bleeding profusely'   onto the floor 

... didn't stand at the sink or stick a bit of toilet paper on the nic to stem  the  'profuse'  bleeding  ...  just walked around the apartment moving furniture and bleeding on the floor

[pegasus]

IIRC there was once a murder case in America where the defence was asked to explain victim's blood on accused, and accused's blood on victim. The defence replied that the accused had a nosebleed and also the victim had a nosebleed.

[ferryman]

There were all the other statements Anne found a while back of all these other people (aside from Paul Gordon) who did, or might have, bled in apartment 5a.

Quite amazing ...

[ferryman]

Cartas Rogatorias Vol V
Pages 44 - 46
Witness statement
FAWKES; Claire Louise
Occupation: Teacher
Date: 22 nd April 2008
 - SNIP - I do not remember if she bled again after this or whether she did in the apartment, but it is a possibility.


Cartas Rogatorias Vol V
Pages 33-35
Statement of Saleigh Gordon.
Occupation: Air Hostess
4 pages
Date: 24th April de 2008
 - SNIP - During our stay Paul cut his face whilst shaving and the cut bled for some time.

Considering the number of times the apartment was allowed to be occupied after the McCann family's departure who knows how many people had bled or there ... the really important thing you do not want to take on board is that there was no blood from Madeleine McCann.

And yes, just tracking back up the thread, there it is again ...

[pathfinder73]

I don't know the details Pat but this fellow who,  I presume,  was some kind of Clint Eastwood character who used an old style  cut throat razor to shave   (  you don't bleed  'profusely' from a nic using a Gilette fushion razor afterall ) apparently moved the sofa  away from the window and stood there  'bleeding profusely'   onto the floor 

... didn't stand at the sink or stick a bit of toilet paper on the nic to stem  the  'profuse'  bleeding  ...  just walked around the apartment moving furniture and bleeding on the floor

   And spot on

[pegasus]

In a 2005 case in Surrey, Keela discovered eight pieces of blood-stained clothing.
Does any anti-dog person here claim they were the results of shaving cuts?
No. The anti-dog peeps accept the validity of Keela's sterling work on all the other cases, and bring up shaving cuts exclusively in this one case in Portugal.

[Miss Taken Identity]

The dog didn't pick up the profusely bleeding male's chin blood anywhere else- apart from behind the sofa.
We either have to accept that the dogs picked up scent where it was in relation to the exercise OR dismiss them out of hand.
a( If agree the dogs did pick up scent then we should agree that the places where the profusely bleeding man, bled; would be highlighted by the dog.

b) If we disagree, why bother to mention the bleeding man at all, as we don't believe the dog did pick up any scent.

Finding Maddie's blood would have to be further investigated as to why it was there, in the particular place. If she had a nose bleed-would there not be traces in other places? There could be an innocent explanation-or not.
 
Having a suspicion needs to be moved on to proof of a scenario.

With regards to the cadaver... a dog cannot smell any individual persons death. The dog will highlight a dead person was here, It cannot distinguish if the dead person was male, female, child or adult.

[Mr Gray]

The dog didn't pick up the profusely bleeding male's chin blood anywhere else- apart from behind the sofa.
We either have to accept that the dogs picked up scent where it was in relation to the exercise OR dismiss them out of hand.
a( If agree the dogs did pick up scent then we should agree that the places where the profusely bleeding man, bled; would be highlighted by the dog.

b) If we disagree, why bother to mention the bleeding man at all, as we don't believe the dog did pick up any scent.

Finding Maddie's blood would have to be further investigated as to why it was there, in the particular place. If she had a nose bleed-would there not be traces in other places? There could be an innocent explanation-or not.
 
Having a suspicion needs to be moved on to proof of a scenario.

With regards to the cadaver... a dog cannot smell any individual persons death. The dog will highlight a dead person was here, It cannot distinguish if the dead person was male, female, child or adult.

Not true...the alert does not signify the previous presence of a dead person...grime tells us this

[pegasus]

As I said IIRC there was once a case where a defendant claimed that both he, and the victim, had nosebleeds.
And IIRC there was once another case where reportedly there had been a nosebleed from both sides.

[stephen25000]

Not true...the alert does not signify the previous presence of a dead person...grime tells us this

When does he say it didn't ?

[Mr Gray]

When does he say it didn't ?

read his report

[Miss Taken Identity]

search for Cadaver dog. My understanding is  they detect cadaver- a scent.
They didn't bring in the dogs to 'find a body' because the place had already been searched!

" With the use of a cadaver dog, rescue crews can identify dead bodies in wreckage for future removal, and cadaver dogs can also be used by crime units to find areas where a cadaver might have been buried, stored, or dismembered"

Myself and everyone else may be wrong ...but I don't think so.

[Mr Gray]

search for Cadaver dog. My understanding is  they detect cadaver- a scent.
They didn't bring in the dogs to 'find a body' because the place had already been searched!

" With the use of a cadaver dog, rescue crews can identify dead bodies in wreckage for future removal, and cadaver dogs can also be used by crime units to find areas where a cadaver might have been buried, stored, or dismembered"

Myself and everyone else may be wrong ...but I don't think so.

The dogs alert show a spot where a body MIGHT have been present...not where a body WAS present...if you think otherwise you are wrong

[stephen25000]

read his report

I did some time ago.