Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[Mr Gray]

was the risk of the child wandering away, or having a nasty incident infinitesimally small too?

fatal accident..absolutely

[Martina]

fatal accident..absolutely

i am not asking about a fatal accident. I am asking about an accident generally. The risk of that was much higher than the risk of the stranger abduction. What prevented the McCanns from assesing the accident/wandering away risk properly and deciding it was not safe to leave the children alone in the unlocked flat?

[Mr Gray]

i am not asking about a fatal accident. I am asking about an accident generally. The risk of that was much higher than the risk of the stranger abduction. What prevented the McCanns from assesing the accident/wandering away risk properly and deciding it was not safe to leave the children alone in the unlocked flat?

it seemed safe..hindsight is a wonderful thing...no child has been seriously injured in 50 yrs of butlins style baby listening

[jassi]

it seemed safe..hindsight is a wonderful thing...no child has been seriously injured in 50 yrs of butlins style baby listening

Is that supposed to be a justification?

[Martina]

it seemed safe..hindsight is a wonderful thing...no child has been seriously injured in 50 yrs of butlins style baby listening

One of the terms of the listening service is that the apartment must be locked. BTW. please provide some evidence to support your claim about no accidents happening.

[pathfinder73]

An abductor who cased the joint the night before and left a mysterious brown stain on the scared crying defenceless child. Not important enough for the parents to leave them alone again for the abduction night which has already been set up in case you missed it. But wait! Talk at the tapas table is one of great concern (not enough to stay in the apartment or even face the apartment) about the crying episode and concerns of leaving that door open so anybody could enter. So Mr Abductor thought he would come back through the door that was always left open and started playing games by hiding in the apartment on their checks and moving doors and opening a window that wasn't used to confuse the McCanns. And if you believe that you will believe anything.

[Alfred R Jones]

There was this quote I believe that one or both McCanns said "they had been watching us for days". How did they know? if they knew the joint was being cased for what they suspected were nefarious reasons why did they leave the kids on their own with the door open.

That's easy - they obviously did not think that at the time, only in retrospect.  You know what they meant, don't pretend otherwise.

[Martina]

That's easy - they obviously did not think that at the time, only in retrospect.  You know what they meant, don't pretend otherwise.

Okay, but how did they get to this conclusion? Even in retrospect? How did they know there were any "they"?

[Alfred R Jones]

Okay, but how did they get to this conclusion? Even in retrospect? How did they know there were any "they"?

They don't know for certain, but it is what they believe and feel, it's an emotional thing, maybe even irrational, but maybe not.

[pathfinder73]

There was this quote I believe that one or both McCanns said "they had been watching us for days". How did they know? if they knew the joint was being cased for what they suspected were nefarious reasons why did they leave the kids on their own with the door open.

5:52

[John]

Crèche workers complained about the number of strangers wandering around the Block 4/5 gardens and pool area during the day but again nothing was done about it.  Obviously the need to pull in the Euros from the casual visitor to the pool bar was more important than the security of guests and their children.  It is quite astounding that given the break-ins, security was not afforded any priority in such a sprawling complex.

Ocean Club Resort were the owners of the resort and had ultimate responsibility for security but I don't recall seeing any statements from their management in relation to events on and before the 3rd May 2007.  There appeared to be a very lax attitude to security, a three-year-old child is reported missing from an apartment in the dark and all main reception could initially do is suggest they try looking for her?

[VIXTE]

Crèche workers complained about the number of strangers wandering around the Block 4/5 gardens and pool area during the day but again nothing was done about it.  Obviously the need to pull in the Euros from the casual visitor to the pool bar was more important than the security of guests and their children.  It is quite astounding that given the break-ins, security was not afforded any priority in such a sprawling complex.

Ocean Club Resort were the owners of the resort and had ultimate responsibility for security but I don't recall seeing any statements from their management in relation to events on and before the 3rd May 2007.  There appeared to be a very lax attitude to security, a three-year-old child is reported missing from an apartment in the dark and all main reception could initially do is suggest they try looking for her?

I thought they had a protocol in place for the cases when a child goes missing and they applied it.
Somehow it seemed they deliberately avoided calling police the first time when Matthew Oldfield was sent to the reception to call the police. It seems they enforced their child missing protocol first.

[Martina]

I thought they had a protocol in place for the cases when a child goes missing and they applied it.
Somehow it seemed they deliberately avoided calling police the first time when Matthew Oldfield was sent to the reception to call the police. It seems they enforced their child missing protocol first.

Somehow no Ocean Staff workers mention Oldifield coming to the reception that day. According to the receptionist,  Helder Luis, the person who contacted him first was not Oldfield, but a staff member of the Tapas Bar:

He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

[VIXTE]

Somehow no Ocean Staff workers mention Oldifield coming to the reception that day. According to the receptionist,  Helder Luis, the person who contacted him first was not Oldfield, but a staff member of the Tapas Bar:

He knows about the situation that happened at the Ocean Club concerning the disappearance of a little given that on the day in question (03/05/2007) he was on duty and was contacted by a member of staff from the Tapas Restaurant between 09.30 and 22.00 who informed him that the daughter of some guests who were dining there had disappeared.

That he immediately contacted the GNR in Lagos, shortly after this the child’s father and John Hill arrived at the reception and he phoned the GNR again.

I have no time to check it out now. I know from several sources that Matt Oldfield was sent to the reception.
Are you suggesting that Matt Oldfield is lying?
How strange with THREE police teams working on the case now and nobody arrested Matthew Oldfield for this obvious lie???
What would be your answer to that?
A big conspiracy of SY and the new PJ teams deliberately protecting the McCanns and their friends?

[Martina]

I have no time to check it out now. I know from several sources that Matt Oldfield was sent to the reception.
Are you suggesting that Matt Oldfield is lying?
How strange with THREE police teams working on the case now and nobody arrested Matthew Oldfield for this obvious lie???
What would be your answer to that?
A big conspiracy of SY and the new PJ teams deliberately protecting the McCanns and their friends?

Don't change the topic. You claimed that the Ocean Club tried to dealy calling the police. I proved you otherwise.