Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[Brietta]

I thought John Hill was the manager...

...just found another reference and it seems both had management roles.

P.S. Are you Judith Chalmers?

 - quote -    JOHN HILL (Manager of the Mark Warner Ocean Club)
the manager at the Mark Warner resort, John Hill, said there was no definite physical evidence that the girl had been abducted. "It's still questionable as to whether it's an abduction," he said. "We are hoping that Madeline is found as soon as possible and safe and well." Mr Hill said the police had been doing all they could. He said around 60 staff and guests at the complex had searched until 4.30am while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports. "There is a criminal investigator here in charge of the situation and around 20 officers but unfortunately there is still no information," - end quote

So this is the genesis of - 'there is no evidence of abduction.' ???  When they were still actively looking for a child who might have wandered off on her own !!! but guess what, when it was ascertained that Madeleine was nowhere to be found ... that was evidence of abduction.

So one of the pervasive mantras is a statement from no less an expert in child protection than ... an hotel manager.  Says it all.

[Miss Taken Identity]

quote"when it was ascertained that Madeleine was nowhere to be found ... that was evidence of abduction."unquote



No, evidence of an abduction would be:

• Independent eyewitness accounts. Maddie being identified as being removed.
  Forensic evidence, of removal ie, scuff marks on the window Ledge-finger prints-DNA
  Material evidence, a body to establish death/or a living child who can recall being 'snatched' from her room

BORING STUFF like that!

[Mr Moderator]

The front door had a double locking mechanism familiar to most of us.  In addition to the snib lock a second lock/bolt could be applied.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1207.msg32131#msg32131

[Benice]

The 'abductor/s didn't need a key  the door was unlocked according to Kate n Gerry- well that was established after the 'shutters and whooshing' story was thrown out, and the- 'was it -was it not locked story was finally established. I said FINALLY as there was a lot rethinking going on with that regard.

Also were the gypsies, paedophile gangs, burglars, child stealers not 'watching' them for days? according to Team McCann.

Not true.       SY believe Kate's description of what happened.    If they believed she had lied  -  there is no way they could have made a public announcement confirming that the McCanns were neither suspects nor persons of interest in this case.      That would have made no sense.

[Miss Taken Identity]

SY are not there on Kate's version of what happened at all.

They are looking for a body, or some evidence in the hope of solving  the crime OF A MISSING CHILD.

The 'whooshing and shutters' are a red herring.

Team Mc  did not want to admit to the press they left children alone in an unlocked apartment!

[Benice]

SY are not there on Kate's version of what happened at all.

They are looking for a body, or some evidence in the hope of solving  the crime OF A MISSING CHILD.

The 'whooshing and shutters' are a red herring.

Team Mc  did not want to admit to the press they left children alone in an unlocked apartment!

I'm afraid you've lost me.     Could you clarify please.       Are you saying SY do NOT believe Kate's claim that the window/shutters were open and the curtain whooshed?

[stephen25000]

I'm afraid you've lost me.     Could you clarify please.       Are you saying SY do NOT believe Kate's claim that the window/shutters were open and the curtain whooshed?

Ah the made up claim.

[Freya]

So you are suggesting a conspiracy?

I'm telling you what I know. If you see it as a conspiracy then so be it. I tend not to go down those routes automatically.

It is what it is, they were told to keep it from guests.......I would have thought to protect their tourist dollars.

[Freya]

Dr Amaral was at pains to emphasise there was only one key to the front door of apartment 5a.

So how did the cleaners and maintenance get it?

[Freya]

I am glad you have been there Freya.  It hasn't been much fun having the other side intimating that I am lying.

I was just amazed how compact the tapas garden and area generally was.  It all seemed very cosy.  A funny expression to use about a garden, but that was the overall feeling that I got.  Brilliantly laid out , I guess by part owner Robin Crossland who is a qualified architect.

Robin Crosland + David Symington + (?) John Garveigh were joint owners of OC.
According to Blackwatch of the Sargeants blog, Symington and Garveigh shot off on a Carribean yachting holiday so avoiding the aftermath.  They stayed out of contact for yonks and I believe were never interviewed.

So much for their Duty of Care ! 


And why were they never asked for their statements ?

Robin Crosland had to field all the questions

I cant comment on these guys Sadie as I never met them or know much about them. My impression was that the main stay of the hiding re burglaries came from OC and not Mark Warner. I gathered this from my impression of how the place operated on a day to day basis. Mark Warner did certainly keep it quiet and they were involved in actively keeping it from their guests. However, as it was down to OC to keep that book and log of thefts and MW is renting from them, I think OC should take the lion share of the blame. MW are still culpable though.

As for what it is like there Sadie, yes, it is very much a village atmosphere. But what you are also totally unaware of is what it was like PRE abduction. Imagine what you saw and felt of the place and then take away what horrific event took place in May 07.......It felt bloody safe. The comment Gerry McCann made about the "back garden" was not meant literally at all IMO. He meant how safe it "FELT" I felt safer there than at home in the village I live in here in UK. It wasn't till the tail end of our hols I found out about the stabbing on the beach, and how that stuff was kept from holiday makers.
Many people speak never having been there and think they have every right to pass judgement. They are speaking out of ignorance. When I watched the breaking news I could not believe what had happened.....even though I heard bout a stabbing you think it is a one off. Since finding out the rest of the stuff I still feel shocked....it seemed such a lovely place.........

[Freya]

I thought John Hill was the manager...

...just found another reference and it seems both had management roles.

P.S. Are you Judith Chalmers?

The set up is really confusing. TWO companies. OC who run the whole place and rent out apartments and certain areas to MW. Its like a concession as such. But MW have a hell of a lot of sway...OC were running round like headless chickens trying to please MArk Chitty (I think that was his name) A MW director I think.

Silvia Batista I think is the OC manager on site...John Hill is most definitely the manager for MW on site

[Freya]

An alternative is, during the day, to leave the key outside the front door, hidden under the door mat?

ETA Sources: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html & http://www.mccannfiles.com/id252.html
"... we did occasionally ... during the daytime, leave the key under the mat ..."
" ... during the daytime ... we left the key under the ... mat ..."

You can definitely get a second and even a third key....as we did

[Freya]

One key per apartment was provided to guests.
That's why the guests at 5H that week during the daytimes occasionally left the key under the door-mat.

They didn't think to ask then. I did! we were told to go to OC reception and ask....hey presto. And so did another couple there who were friends......we let them know you could get them. You have to show your passport I believe as proof of who you are.

[slartibartfast]

I'm telling you what I know. If you see it as a conspiracy then so be it. I tend not to go down those routes automatically.

It is what it is, they were told to keep it from guests.......I would have thought to protect their tourist dollars.

So we are clear, you are accusing MW/OC of having a deliberate policy of hiding facts about serious incidents from customers?

[Freya]

The 'abductor/s didn't need a key  the door was unlocked according to Kate n Gerry- well that was established after the 'shutters and whooshing' story was thrown out, and the- 'was it -was it not locked story was finally established. I said FINALLY as there was a lot rethinking going on with that regard.

Also were the gypsies, paedophile gangs, burglars, child stealers not 'watching' them for days? according to Team McCann.

They have never said that was the case with certainty have they? that's what they were assuming may have happened. But Im sure you are aware of that anyway. Personally, I think it wasn't really planned that well. I think they didn't even try the back door. They went in through the front door, shutters used as look out and left through front door. Key used.