Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[sadie]

I shall repeat the question-

Did Kate McCann state that Madeleine asked her why she did not come to her and Sean's aid when they were crying continuously, Yes or No ?

No

No mention of crying continuously

[pegasus]

I shall repeat the question-

Did Kate McCann state that Madeleine asked her why she did not come to her and Sean's aid when they were crying continuously, Yes or No ?

IIRC the mother did not say "continuously".
The witness is telling the truth and was unaware of the crying when it was happening.

[carlymichelle]

intresting  forum from  2004   http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?3002-Do-Babies-Still-Cry&s=d8611544070ece0ddba185399c688ff4


dave is always  going on   about how  butlins      children were left  well  they have not had  a  baby listerner  service  since  1991!!!   and  the rules  there   

NO No theres no child listening service like there used to be. In fact if you look at the terms and conditions it clearly states no children under 5 should be left alone, and that that child facilities arent meant as child minding services. They havent done a baby listening service since 1991 when it was out lawed by the then governement as part of a new childrens act.

[Mr Gray]

intresting  forum from  2004   http://www.butlins-memories.com/forums/showthread.php?3002-Do-Babies-Still-Cry&s=d8611544070ece0ddba185399c688ff4


dave is always  going on   about how  butlins      children were left  well  they have not had  a  baby listerner  service  since  1991!!!   and  the rules  there   

NO No theres no child listening service like there used to be. In fact if you look at the terms and conditions it clearly states no children under 5 should be left alone, and that that child facilities arent meant as child minding services. They havent done a baby listening service since 1991 when it was out lawed by the then governement as part of a new childrens act.

so butlins says its ok to leave children over 5..........you need to read things before you post them

[Mr Gray]

It's a channel 4 despatches documentary made shortly before the DNA test results were due back from the UK I believe. I didn't actually want to post a hideho video but I could not find a link to the documentary anywhere else. IMO this is a quality documentary, but you have to consider it was made some time ago and the time period...

I'll have a look again at the video when I have a sec and think about your points!

This quality video says an abduction would have been very easy to carry out

[sadie]

They were effectively in their OWN garden Carly

The only side of the building that was unlocked was overlooked by them and their group from 50 metres away. 

It was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately opposite



Amaral himself said that no abductor would attempt to go into the apartment with the parents so close and overlooking it.

Are you questioning Amarals judgement?

[Alice Purjorick]

They were effectively in their OWN garden Carly

The only side of the building that was unlocked was overlooked by them and their group from 50 metres away. 

It was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately opposite



Amaral himself said that no abductor would attempt to go into the apartment with the parents so close and overlooking it.

Are you questioning Amarals judgement?

Oh not that old chestnut again.

[stephen25000]

They were effectively in their OWN garden Carly

The only side of the building that was unlocked was overlooked by them and their group from 50 metres away. 

It was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately opposite



Amaral himself said that no abductor would attempt to go into the apartment with the parents so close and overlooking it.

Are you questioning Amarals judgement?

What utter rubbish.

They were not in the equivalent of their own garden.

The power od delusion with some people is sometimes unparallelled.

[sadie]

What utter rubbish.

They were not in the equivalent of their own garden.

The power od delusion with some people is sometimes unparallelled.

You have not been there.  I have

[stephen25000]

You have not been there.  I have

IRRELEVANT.

It was not the back garden.

Your making excuses for inexcusable behavior.

END OF.

[John]

They were effectively in their OWN garden Carly

The only side of the building that was unlocked was overlooked by them and their group from 50 metres away. 

It was well illuminated by the street lamp immediately opposite



Amaral himself said that no abductor would attempt to go into the apartment with the parents so close and overlooking it.

Are you questioning Amarals judgement?

Their 'own garden' was in Rothley seemingly so they weren't effectively in it.  They were in a resort, a public place, albeit 60 metres as the crow flies from their apartment but as every parent knows, that might as well have been 60 miles had one of the youngsters had an accident.  Leaving three young children under 4 alone at night in unfamiliar surroundings was a recipe for disaster and whats more, the McCann's agree.

As far as Mark Warner and the Ocean Club management are concerned my own belief is that although they laid on excellent child minding facilities, they failed to warn guests that they should lock up their apartments properly and should not leave children unattended.

[lordpookles]

Here is the actual picture from the documentary. They state the tapas bar but from this I believe they mean restaurant and bar. As in the next sentence the guy say it is more or less from the table they were sitting at.



Sadie makes a point that they are too far over - perhaps... looking at the maps and the location of the resturant this does not seem that wrong to me...

Tapas restaurant and bar including table location:

[pathfinder73]

Their 'own garden' was in Rothley seemingly so they weren't effectively in it.  They were in a resort, a public place, albeit 60 metres as the crow flies from their apartment but as every parent knows, that might as well have been 60 miles had one of the youngsters had an accident.  Leaving three young children under 4 alone at night in unfamiliar surroundings was a recipe for disaster and whats more, the McCann's agree.

As far as Mark Warner and the Ocean Club management are concerned my own belief is that although they laid on excellent child minding facilities, they failed to warn guests that they should lock up their apartments properly and should not leave children unattended.

What does the sticker note on the patio door say? Doesn't it say to keep locked if unattended?

[Miss Taken Identity]

The person who took this picture was in the pool? there were bushes covering the apartment they could not see....but well, if they were right next to the children this brings us to the question...How the hell did this abduction take place? if they were soooooooooooooo close why did they not hear Maddie or Sean crying?

So we are all agreed, the children were well looked after and no abductor could have penetrated the parents fail safe security.

[lordpookles]

It's just the lens that is used on the camera and the viewfinder has just cropped out the edge of pool nearest the camera imo... the camera lens seems to distort the feeling of perspective a bit thereby exaggerating the distance a bit but it's hard to see that they could see much at all. Even moving over somewhat in line with their apartment would not offer a clear view imo though more would of course be visible...