Author Topic: The Smith sighting revisited.  (Read 142310 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #150 on: October 05, 2014, 12:04:06 AM »
I cant be sure without watching it again but wasn't there another sighting of a guy on the beach that night too?

I believe it was a press article, rather than in the files. I spent a lot of time going through the sightings and I dont recall one in there, but I will check, when time allows.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline John

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #151 on: October 05, 2014, 12:28:31 AM »
Redwood should explain these things when he introduces new e-fits rather than leaving everyone to second guess him all the time.  That said though, I still believe Tanner saw something she wasn't intended to see that night and that is a big problem for some.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Anna

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #152 on: October 05, 2014, 12:37:06 AM »
Redwood should explain these things when he introduces new e-fits rather than leaving everyone to second guess him all the time.  That said though, I still believe Tanner saw something she wasn't intended to see that night and that is a big problem for some.

I believe also that JT saw more than most realise.
 I think the news of the sighting early on, was the man that the smiths saw, going towards the beach.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline a.baker

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #153 on: October 05, 2014, 12:44:22 AM »
Could you expand on your last paragraph John. What or who do you think Tanner might have seen? And who is it a problem for? Sounds interesting

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #154 on: October 05, 2014, 01:25:14 AM »
http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dm141013a.jpg



First things that I notice:

1)  THe LH mans face is a long, rather thin heart shaped face, the RH mans face appears to be rather "square" ...    I think the second man had his face was inclined right down, and his chin tucked right into his neck fat (jowls).  This caused his chin to visually vanish in the poor light and shadow from the upper face.


2.  Because his face is inclined right down, certain parts of the face are foreshortened [fs]  as well as the chin vanishing into his "jowls" (fatty neck)

Despite having only 3 statements, it is quite likely that everyone who saw Smithman had his/her own go at the Efit.  The RH efit has loads of foreshortening and also appears very "woolley.  Is it an amalgam of several efits?  Has that caused the woolleyness ?


3.    The LH man is slightly smiling, the RH man is not.  Smiling increases the length of the mouth and thins the lips down.  It also lifts the cheeks a little as in these photos.

I dont know, but I think the LH image was Aoifes image. 
I wonder if Aoife was a pretty 12 y.o. (going on 15 with make up) and he liked the look of her?  Hence the direct look and the appreciative small smile?  She would notice that and such is the natural reaction, would see an image that might be better looking than he really was?   


4.  Both men have small ears set flat against the head


5   However, the ears on the LH man appear to be stuck on in the wrong places, overlapping and cutting off a bit on each side oif the face, so making the LH face appear even slimmer.


6.  Both men have a pronounced 10 o'clock shadow on their upper lips, but nowhere else.


7.  The eyes and eyebrows have many similarities.   Eye shapes are not dis-similar, and neither are the eyebrow shapes.  Whilst one looks very groomed, the other looks a little unkept in comparison.  They are both horizontal in alignment.    Could the unkept look be because several efit images provided by several witnesses were superimposed and the minor variances caused the unkempt look?

With both images the brows widthwise, are are just covering the eyes and little more ... and lie in a horizontal plane  There is a good gap between the brows on both and they are of similar o/all shape. 



8.  However, the vertical gap between the eyes and brows differs between the two images.
Could that be because RH man was looking down and this feature was foreshortened?


9.  Both have the unusual bulges over the eyes. However the LH man has larger and bright eyes, whilst the RH man has a duller older look and his eyes are set closer together.  Seems that as the head was tilted forward AKA the RH image, the bulge almost slightly obscured the top of the eyes.

The eyes are similar is shape , but the bulge above the eyes tends to "squash" the eyes in the RH image


10.  The noses are not disimilar but again the RH image seems to be foreshortened, giving what appears to be a shorter nose.
Is the upper lip partially hidden by the nose and also foreshortened in the RH image?


11.  The hairlines are not the same, but if the man in the second image had his head grossly tilted down then it would be difficult to assess the hairline.




I feel sure they are the same man.


See what you think of the attached photo, Sadie, it is seven years down the line but he seems to have the five o'clock shadow on the upper lip.
Also there was a phone call to him from reception which he didn't answer ... which is fair enough because it was in the wee small hours .

>> snipped <<
. On the day of the disappearance of the child, that next morning (04/05/07) at around 01H23, he received a telephone call from the LOC reservations sector which he did not answer. He knows this because the number appeared on his mobile;
. When the telephone rang, he was sleeping and when looked at the ?display? of the mobile it looked as though what was recorded as the name 'Relvas', instead of 'Reservations', and thought it was a friend of his who often call shim at odd hours, already inebriated;
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIAGO-SILVA.htm


>>snipped<<
Apartment key theft cover-up by resort staff in Madeleine McCann case

The Sunday Express tracked down the maintenance worker who allegedly lost the keys, 29-year-old Tiago da Silva, who lives a few miles from Luz in Lagos, a pretty coastal town.

When we put it to him that keys were lost, he paused momentarily before saying: “That is not the case. I can’t remember any keys going missing. The keys in maintenance were kept in a safe and nobody could get to them.”

However, his former colleague insisted: “I know what he told me at the time. The keys for all the blocks were kept on a cable and clearly marked.

“He said he had lost the keys to block five. He told me in the same week when the little girl went missing. I am sure of this.

“From my memory I think they were replaced with duplicate keys for the apartments which were held at reception. I remember all this very clearly. He did not want us to tell people about it, so we didn’t say anything.”
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/458798/Apartment-key-theft-cover-up-by-resort-staff-in-Madeleine-McCann-case

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #155 on: October 06, 2014, 03:28:13 PM »
One efit has grainy low-res graphics and the other efit has smooth hi-res graphics.
My opinion is that two different softwares and operators were used for the two efits.
So the two efits were likely drawn in different places on different days.
Which means it's likely that only one efit is by the irish group.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 03:30:23 PM by pegasus »

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #156 on: October 06, 2014, 03:50:43 PM »
One efit has grainy low-res graphics and the other efit has smooth hi-res graphics.
My opinion is that two different softwares and operators were used for the two efits.
So the two efits were likely drawn in different places on different days.
Which means it's likely that only one efit is by the irish group.

I’m very unsure about the Smith family sighting and I am certainly at a loss to see how they could give such an accurate description of a man they saw fleetingly in the dark.
I can think of at least four well known faces connected to the case and I’m sure we could come up with others if we tried.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 09:55:32 PM by John »
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #157 on: October 06, 2014, 04:10:34 PM »
I’m very unsure about the Smith family sighting and I am certainly at a loss to see how they could give such an accurate description of a man they saw fleetingly in the dark.
I don’t know if admin will allow the attachment to stand … but I think the efit may be a generic representation which resembles a number of people … I can think of at least four well known faces connected to the case and I’m sure we could come up with others if we tried.

I've never been able to think past Jurgen Klinsmann as no.1.
No.3 - I think he looks Portuguese & his build looks larger than the Smiths' description.
Didn't Redwood say that there were a few/several people who had phoned in after Crimewatch & provided the same name? It's odd that he still hasn't been identified/eliminated.

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #158 on: October 06, 2014, 04:38:30 PM »
I've never been able to think past Jurgen Klinsmann as no.1.
No.3 - I think he looks Portuguese & his build looks larger than the Smiths' description.
Didn't Redwood say that there were a few/several people who had phoned in after Crimewatch & provided the same name? It's odd that he still hasn't been identified/eliminated.

I think some people may have phoned in re. two Scots paedophiles, Charles O'Neill and William Lauchlan, who are currently serving out a jail sentence for murder.  I know the police would like to question them but I think they (or one of them) have refused.   
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #159 on: October 06, 2014, 09:21:36 PM »
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.

He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.

He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

“We think about Madeleine a lot and we would love to see a conclusion to this case.

Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.

Commenting on the Crimewatch documentary which was broadcast on Monday night he added: “The only new thing in the investigation is the elimination of Jane Tanner’s sighting.

“Apart from that from our point of view everything else remains the same in relation to what we said to the police and the media at the time. We have nothing more to add.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #160 on: October 06, 2014, 10:18:23 PM »
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.

He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.

He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

“We think about Madeleine a lot and we would love to see a conclusion to this case.

Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.

Commenting on the Crimewatch documentary which was broadcast on Monday night he added: “The only new thing in the investigation is the elimination of Jane Tanner’s sighting.

“Apart from that from our point of view everything else remains the same in relation to what we said to the police and the media at the time. We have nothing more to add.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328

Strange that given the chance he didn't mention that since his statement identifying Gerry he'd had a change of heart. In fact quite the opposite.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline misty

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #161 on: October 06, 2014, 10:23:07 PM »
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.

He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.

He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

“We think about Madeleine a lot and we would love to see a conclusion to this case.

Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.

Commenting on the Crimewatch documentary which was broadcast on Monday night he added: “The only new thing in the investigation is the elimination of Jane Tanner’s sighting.

“Apart from that from our point of view everything else remains the same in relation to what we said to the police and the media at the time. We have nothing more to add.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328


If the sighting was deemed so unimportant in May 2007, why were the Smiths asked to return to Portugal to make their statements? As far as I'm aware, none of the other witnesses who returned to the UK were asked to return - they all dealt with the UK police

Offline Brietta

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #162 on: October 06, 2014, 10:47:53 PM »
Mr Smith, a former Unilever executive, made a statement along with his wife Mary, daughter Aoife and son Peter soon after Madeleine vanished on May 3, 2007.

He helped compile e-fits a year later – but the images were not released at the time and were only made public for the first time earlier this week.

Speaking from his home in Drogheda, Co Louth, Mr Smith said that the Portuguese police did not seem to think his sighting was significant.

He added: “It looked as if they put 90% credence on the Jane Tanner sighting, maybe that wrong-footed them and they didn’t take our sighting as seriously. I was surprised it took six years to rule out the other sighting.”

He said he has met with Scotland Yard detectives twice over the past 18 months to help them with the new probe. He added: “We‘d all love to see the police get to the bottom of what happened.”

“We think about Madeleine a lot and we would love to see a conclusion to this case.

Mr Smith was with his wife, daughter, son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren on the night that the three year old vanished.

The family described the man they saw as white, with short brown hair and of average build and height, aged between 20 and 40.

Commenting on the Crimewatch documentary which was broadcast on Monday night he added: “The only new thing in the investigation is the elimination of Jane Tanner’s sighting.

“Apart from that from our point of view everything else remains the same in relation to what we said to the police and the media at the time. We have nothing more to add.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-key-witness-accuses-2433328

Interesting ... particularly the date ... Oct 16, 2013 07:59
   
If this article is accurate ... it gets even more curious … and begs the question why there was such a furore over the Drs McCann and the release of these efits.

If the Smiths returned to Portugal to assist the PJ with efits which were not released … why was that anything to do with the Drs McCann.

Am I missing something here?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #163 on: October 06, 2014, 11:07:37 PM »
Interesting ... particularly the date ... Oct 16, 2013 07:59
   
If this article is accurate ... it gets even more curious … and begs the question why there was such a furore over the Drs McCann and the release of these efits.

If the Smiths returned to Portugal to assist the PJ with efits which were not released … why was that anything to do with the Drs McCann.

Am I missing something here?

I think you're misreading things Brietta. Mr Smith doesn't say he assisted the PJ. The article merely says he helped in the compiling of the efits a year later.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 11:15:02 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: The Smith sighting revisited.
« Reply #164 on: October 06, 2014, 11:08:19 PM »
Interesting ... particularly the date ... Oct 16, 2013 07:59
   
If this article is accurate ... it gets even more curious … and begs the question why there was such a furore over the Drs McCann and the release of these efits.

If the Smiths returned to Portugal to assist the PJ with efits which were not released … why was that anything to do with the Drs McCann.

Am I missing something here?

Only that the article leaves the reader to work out the e-fits were compiled in May or later 2008 and it does not say by whom they were commissioned. It would be interesting to know.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey