Author Topic: Sunday Times sued by McCanns  (Read 56757 times)

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Offline Bert Singe

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2014, 02:45:13 PM »
Exton did: see below.  No specific mention of e-fits in the quote you chose to highlight earlier.


"Exton confirmed last week that the fund had silenced his investigators for years after they handed over their controversial findings. He said: “A letter came from their lawyers binding us to the confidentiality of the report.”

He claimed the legal threat had prevented him from handing over the report to Scotland Yard’s fresh investigation, until detectives had obtained written permission from the fund."

Good spot.

So how about answering rest which also form part of the argument?

Why would SY want access to information that according to the McCann's has already formed part of the case files? Did the McCann's not previously provide this after all? Did they just pass along an efit with no explanation of said efit? What purpose would that serve?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2014, 02:57:01 PM »
The knots are all yours.

Who told you SY wanted access to "all the data" uncovered by Exton? Are you joining the dots to form your own picture? Why would SY want access to information that according to the McCann's has already formed part of the case files? Did the McCann's not previously provide this after all? Did they just pass along an efit with no explanation of said efit? What purpose would that serve?

The so-called 'report' was worth less than the paper it was written on anyway.

Idle speculation about weight and emphasis to JT's report versus the Smith's ...

All froth and bubble ...

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #137 on: October 12, 2014, 02:59:05 PM »
Good spot.

So how about answering rest which also form part of the argument?

Why would SY want access to information that according to the McCann's has already formed part of the case files? Did the McCann's not previously provide this after all? Did they just pass along an efit with no explanation of said efit? What purpose would that serve?
Sorry, are you saying that the McCanns stated that their investigators uncovered no new information other than that which formed part of the case files?  I'm unable to answer your questions in truth, suffice it to say, what do you think all this signifies, in your view?  That the McCanns dunnit or what?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #138 on: October 12, 2014, 03:38:35 PM »
The so-called 'report' was worth less than the paper it was written on anyway.

Idle speculation about weight and emphasis to JT's report versus the Smith's ...

All froth and bubble ...

Why was the report worth less than the paper it was written on ?

Was it perhaps because the McCann 's own investigators, investigators that they had lauded for their professionalism,  had raised doubts about their and their friends role in Madeleine's  disappearance ?

TBH if your own investigators, who have access to ALL the evidence, think you are hiding something there's definitely something wrong !
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Bert Singe

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2014, 03:49:34 PM »
Sorry, are you saying that the McCanns stated that their investigators uncovered no new information other than that which formed part of the case files?  I'm unable to answer your questions in truth, suffice it to say, what do you think all this signifies, in your view?  That the McCanns dunnit or what?

No. I'm asking why SY would need a report that has already been given to the investigating forces? If it has previously been given to the investigating forces then shouldn't it already be part of the case files?

If it wasn't previously given to the investigating forces then on what basis had the efits been given to them and why did those efits subsequently never see the light of day for such a long time?

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #140 on: October 12, 2014, 03:58:15 PM »
No. I'm asking why SY would need a report that has already been given to the investigating forces? If it has previously been given to the investigating forces then shouldn't it already be part of the case files?

If it wasn't previously given to the investigating forces then on what basis had the efits been given to them and why did those efits subsequently never see the light of day for such a long time?
I have absolutely no idea.  In truth, these are not questions that keep me awake at night.  If you really need to know the answers perhaps you could send in an FOI request, as obviously this is a matter of great import to you.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #141 on: October 12, 2014, 04:05:20 PM »
No. I'm asking why SY would need a report that has already been given to the investigating forces? If it has previously been given to the investigating forces then shouldn't it already be part of the case files?

If it wasn't previously given to the investigating forces then on what basis had the efits been given to them and why did those efits subsequently never see the light of day for such a long time?
shows the ST article is inaccurate...no wonder they removed it and paid damages...Exton didn't sue because he doesn't have the money to sue and if the report was based on a verbal conversation might find it difficult to prove exactly what he said...simple

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #142 on: October 12, 2014, 08:08:13 PM »
Why was the report worth less than the paper it was written on ?

Was it perhaps because the McCann 's own investigators, investigators that they had lauded for their professionalism,  had raised doubts about their and their friends role in Madeleine's  disappearance ?

TBH if your own investigators, who have access to ALL the evidence, think you are hiding something there's definitely something wrong !

This paragraph is from the Calvert and Blake original:

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes. The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay.


Depending on when the e-fits were produced, that might have been sound advice (assuming a live and on-going investigation was in progress when the e-fits were produced).

But in November 2008, there certainly wasn't!

By 2009, the efits were in the hands of British and Portuguese police, who, themselves, chose the moment of the Crimewatch programme to release it.

So clearly nothing was suppressed/withheld for 5 years.

And as to emphasis on the Smith sightings, just read Kate's book.

Plenty in there about it.  Plenty of emphasis ...



Offline slartibartfast

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #143 on: October 12, 2014, 08:31:34 PM »
This paragraph is from the Calvert and Blake original:

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes. The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay.


Depending on when the e-fits were produced, that might have been sound advice (assuming a live and on-going investigation was in progress when the e-fits were produced).

But in November 2008, there certainly wasn't!

By 2009, the efits were in the hands of British and Portuguese police, who, themselves, chose the moment of the Crimewatch programme to release it.

So clearly nothing was suppressed/withheld for 5 years.

And as to emphasis on the Smith sightings, just read Kate's book.

Plenty in there about it.  Plenty of emphasis ...

So released without delay means on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.

(With apologies to DA)
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #144 on: October 12, 2014, 08:52:46 PM »
This paragraph is from the Calvert and Blake original:

The new focus shifted the believed timeline of the abduction back by 45 minutes. The report, delivered to the McCanns in November 2008, recommended that the revised timeline should be the basis for future investigations and that the Smith E-Fits should be released without delay.


Depending on when the e-fits were produced, that might have been sound advice (assuming a live and on-going investigation was in progress when the e-fits were produced).

But in November 2008, there certainly wasn't!

By 2009, the efits were in the hands of British and Portuguese police, who, themselves, chose the moment of the Crimewatch programme to release it.

So clearly nothing was suppressed/withheld for 5 years.

And as to emphasis on the Smith sightings, just read Kate's book.

Plenty in there about it.  Plenty of emphasis ...

From the original Times article :

"A team of hand-picked former MI5 agents had been hired by the McCanns to chase a much-needed breakthrough in the search for their missing daughter Madeleine.

But within months the relationship had soured. A report produced by the investigators was deemed "hypercritical" of the McCanns and their friends, and the authors were threatened with legal action if it was made public. Its contents remained secret until Scotland Yard detectives conducting a fresh review of the case contacted the authors and asked for a copy."

And

"An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns' friends was dismissed as less credible after "serious inconsistencies" were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about "anomalies" in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends."


So even if the efits were handed over to the relevant authorities, albeit after over a years delay, the Oakley report certainly wasn't and it took a request from SY to the fund for the contents to be revealed.

So there was certainly suppression of important information, the only mistake the Times made was to choose the wrong piece as their centrepiece.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #145 on: October 12, 2014, 09:00:44 PM »
So released without delay means on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.

(With apologies to DA)

Or stuffed in a file marked "Not Relevant" by Paiva.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #146 on: October 12, 2014, 09:01:02 PM »
From the original Times article :

"A team of hand-picked former MI5 agents had been hired by the McCanns to chase a much-needed breakthrough in the search for their missing daughter Madeleine.

But within months the relationship had soured. A report produced by the investigators was deemed "hypercritical" of the McCanns and their friends, and the authors were threatened with legal action if it was made public. Its contents remained secret until Scotland Yard detectives conducting a fresh review of the case contacted the authors and asked for a copy."

And

"An earlier sighting by one of the McCanns' friends was dismissed as less credible after "serious inconsistencies" were found in her evidence. The report also raised questions about "anomalies" in the statements given by the McCanns and their friends."


So even if the efits were handed over to the relevant authorities, albeit after over a years delay, the Oakley report certainly wasn't and it took a request from SY to the fund for the contents to be revealed.

So there was certainly suppression of important information, the only mistake the Times made was to choose the wrong piece as their centrepiece.

You'd have thought  the Sunday Times much vaunted insight team would have understood that standard confidentiality clauses are run-of-the-mill to emails and other communications in the modern age.

But evidently they didn't.

The fact remains that e-fits delivered to the McCanns in November 2008 were in the hands of British and Portuguese police by 2009.
 
So who suppressed/withheld what for 5 years?


Offline Brietta

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #147 on: October 12, 2014, 09:20:45 PM »
You'd have thought  the Sunday Times much vaunted insight team would have understood that standard confidentiality clauses are run-of-the-mill to emails and other communications in the modern age.

But evidently they didn't.

The fact remains that e-fits delivered to the McCanns in November 2008 were in the hands of British and Portuguese police by 2009.
 
So who suppressed/withheld what for 5 years?

Can anyone tell me why if three bodies hold the same information

(a)   The Madeleine fund (the McCanns)
(b)   The British police
(c)   The Portuguese police

and it is not publicised why only one of the three are castigated?

Can anyone tell me why that one should be the McCanns?

Can anyone explain the rationale behind that?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #148 on: October 12, 2014, 09:23:16 PM »
Can anyone tell me why if three bodies hold the same information

(a)   The Madeleine fund (the McCanns)
(b)   The British police
(c)   The Portuguese police

and it is not publicised why only one of the three are castigated?

Can anyone tell me why that one should be the McCanns?

Can anyone explain the rationale behind that?

Coz they are the ones leaving no stone unturned...?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Sunday Times sued by McCanns
« Reply #149 on: October 12, 2014, 09:51:48 PM »
Coz they are the ones leaving no stone unturned...?
Why are the British and Portuguese police leaving stones unturned then?