Author Topic: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.  (Read 36577 times)

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Offline Holly Goodhead

Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« on: November 09, 2014, 01:09:25 PM »
Why was NB not shot in bed?  Why would JB not deal with his greatest obstacle in order of priority?  Why would JB shoot/maim June a petite woman of perhaps a slightly anxious disposition before shooting/maiming NB a powerfully built man who was military trained?  NB was shot well away from the bed while he was standing.  JB was considered a marksman so he would have been more than capable of successful head shots.  He could  then have fired other random shots  to make it appear amateurish/frenzied. 

47
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 08:39:31 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 02:35:46 PM »
It's a small kitchen, Hols. Sat in his favourite chair next to the AGA facing the worktop, how could he miss anyone let alone Sheila loading a magazine and walking off with the Anschutz.

"Where are you off to, Sheila?"  Oh, it's alright, dad... I'm just going upstairs to try out Jeremy's new rifle!"

Why was NB not shot in bed?  Why would JB not deal with his greatest obstacle in order of priority?  Why would JB shoot/maim June a petite woman of perhaps a slightly anxious disposition before shooting/maiming NB a powerfully built man who was military trained?  NB was shot well away from the bed while he was standing.  JB was considered a marksman so he would have been more than capable of successful head shots.  He could  then have fired other random shots  to make it appear amateurish/frenzied. 

You've asked that question umpteen times before! It was a fast moving situation as you said and JB wasn't bothered who the first victim was.  That's why mother was shot first, because she was the nearest accesible person to the assailant entering the bedroom, possibly in semi-darkness and the reason why Nevill had the nous when he realised what was happening to quickly jump out of bed before the killer managed to get any shots at him.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2014, 08:05:54 PM »
It's a small kitchen, Hols. Sat in his favourite chair next to the AGA facing the worktop, how could he miss anyone let alone Sheila loading a magazine and walking off with the Anschutz.

"Where are you off to, Sheila?"  Oh, it's alright, dad... I'm just going upstairs to try out Jeremy's new rifle!"

You've asked that question umpteen times before! It was a fast moving situation as you said and JB wasn't bothered who the first victim was.  That's why mother was shot first, because she was the nearest accesible person to the assailant entering the bedroom, possibly in semi-darkness and the reason why Nevill had the nous when he realised what was happening to quickly jump out of bed before the killer managed to get any shots at him.

If NB had his face to the wall ie standing over the kitchen units while talking with JB on the phone he might have been unaware of what was going on behind him.  SC might have either found the mag loaded, or loaded it herself, prior to NB entering the kitchen.

I would like to view the bedroom photo (one with blood staining to bedding) with the bullet location and layout. I am unable to locate the bedroom photo and would be grateful if someone could help. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=633.0;attach=1935
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline abs

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2014, 08:28:34 PM »
Do you mean those, Holls?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 08:35:01 PM »
Do you mean those, Holls?

Yes  *&(+(+ Abs
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 08:50:40 PM »
This is another with the hatched area showing where the bullets were probably fired from...

[attachment deleted by admin]
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 09:28:00 PM »
This is another with the hatched area showing where the bullets were probably fired from...

 *&(+(+ Myster

Some of the bullet locations are marked by numbers.  Others by what looks like a bullet. And the two slightly outside the bedroom by a squiggle?  I assume some are fragments since the number in the diagram added with those elsewhere would exceed the total used?

I don't understand, if JB burst into the main bedroom via the door leading to the stairs/June's side and shot June in bed with NB fleeing his bed before he was shot, NB would need to walk into the direct line of fire/JB's path to exit the bedroom unless NB fled out the main bedroom into the box room but then this wouldn't account for the bullet wounds/location NB received June's side of the bed?   &%+((£

Do we know if any of the internal doors were lockable and if so which ones?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 10:30:26 PM »
*&(+(+ Myster

Some of the bullet locations are marked by numbers.  Others by what looks like a bullet. And the two slightly outside the bedroom by a squiggle?  I assume some are fragments since the number in the diagram added with those elsewhere would exceed the total used?

I don't understand, if JB burst into the main bedroom via the door leading to the stairs/June's side and shot June in bed with NB fleeing his bed before he was shot, NB would need to walk into the direct line of fire/JB's path to exit the bedroom unless NB fled out the main bedroom into the box room but then this wouldn't account for the bullet wounds/location NB received June's side of the bed?   &%+((£

Do we know if any of the internal doors were lockable and if so which ones?
I assume the solid black ones are bullets minus the brass shells, and the rest are shell casings. There seem to be two number DRH7's, which stumped me when I took the screenshot off a Youtube video and probably why my arrow cursor is pointing to it.

Nevill might have pushed the assailant out of the way to get through the main bedroom door on his rush downstairs to the kitchen.

There could have been a lock on this door but whether it was secured is anyone's guess. Do people usually lock their bedroom doors, or leave them loose in case of fire?  There was one on the Box Room door but without a key, although this is a later photo than the crime scene ones...

[attachment deleted by admin]
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 05:25:32 PM »
I assume the solid black ones are bullets minus the brass shells, and the rest are shell casings. There seem to be two number DRH7's, which stumped me when I took the screenshot off a Youtube video and probably why my arrow cursor is pointing to it.

Nevill might have pushed the assailant out of the way to get through the main bedroom door on his rush downstairs to the kitchen.

There could have been a lock on this door but whether it was secured is anyone's guess. Do people usually lock their bedroom doors, or leave them loose in case of fire?  There was one on the Box Room door but without a key, although this is a later photo than the crime scene ones...

I dont think the bedroom soc is compatible with JB entering through the main bedroom door and shooting June and NB in that room.  If I consider the guilty scenario of JB (considered a marksman) entering the main bedroom via the landing and first shooting June in Bed with NB fleeing his bed before any shots were fired, how did NB end up in the doorway as per the bullet location?  Imo the innocent scenario of SC and NB in the kitchen, with NB distracted by making a call to JB, and SC moving upstairs to shoot June from the foot of the bed with NB dropping the phone, running upstairs and arriving at the entrance of the main bedroom appears more compatible with the soc/bullet location?

I'm unable to make out the wording in the shaded area.  Think it might say position of shooter?  If it does this would surely seem about right given the angle of shots /wounds and bullet location?  I'm unable to work out how NB could flee his bed and get past JB without receiving any shots on NB's side of the bedroom.

I know there's N,E,S,W somewhere, but if I consider the head of the bed is N with June's side/main entrance is E, NB's side is W and the foot of the bed is S.  The bullets were all found N/NE (excl SC's).  It makes no sense to me how NB could move from W to S to E to NE and only receive shots in the NE zone.   
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 08:13:27 PM »
I dont think the bedroom soc is compatible with JB entering through the main bedroom door and shooting June and NB in that room.  If I consider the guilty scenario of JB (considered a marksman) entering the main bedroom via the landing and first shooting June in Bed with NB fleeing his bed before any shots were fired, how did NB end up in the doorway as per the bullet location?  Imo the innocent scenario of SC and NB in the kitchen, with NB distracted by making a call to JB, and SC moving upstairs to shoot June from the foot of the bed with NB dropping the phone, running upstairs and arriving at the entrance of the main bedroom appears more compatible with the soc/bullet location?

I'm unable to make out the wording in the shaded area.  Think it might say position of shooter?  If it does this would surely seem about right given the angle of shots /wounds and bullet location?  I'm unable to work out how NB could flee his bed and get past JB without receiving any shots on NB's side of the bedroom.

I know there's N,E,S,W somewhere, but if I consider the head of the bed is N with June's side/main entrance is E, NB's side is W and the foot of the bed is S.  The bullets were all found N/NE (excl SC's).  It makes no sense to me how NB could move from W to S to E to NE and only receive shots in the NE zone.   
The Anschutz ejects used shells from the right hand side exit hole, so the obvious place where shooter fired from is the hatched area where most of the shells ended up on the carpet, which is what it more or less says on the diagram. I worked out exactly what it did read once, but don't remember the exact wording.

I can't understand why you don't see how simple the answer is. The attacker's intention was to kill everybody with head shots while they were asleep (it worked successfully with the twins). Nevill was too sharp - his mouth wounds might have been received while in bed, although there is no evidence of blood on his pillow or bedclothes on his side of the bed. Maybe he got up too quickly for any to have dripped there, and only started to bleed profusely once he had got out of bed. Or he was shot while standing at his side of the bed, possibly near the end and facing towards the main doorway.

A plan specially made for you...


Nevill didn't necessarily receive any shots in the NE zone... June was wandering about occupying that area after being shot anyway. The killer is thought to have stood in the hatched area and fired from there roughly westwards towards Nevill on his side of the bed. If Nevill was desperate to escape his attacker then he probably pushed his way past JB to get away from the onslaught. He might even have received the defence wounds to his forearm in the bedroom (rather than in the kitchen) before shoving his opponent out of the way. There was a bullet casing found on the stairs which probably accounted for the arm wound Nevill received on his way downstairs.

According to your theory, if Nevill came into the bedroom from the landing, then in order to receive the wounds to his mouth he must have moved fully into the room in the region of his own bedside and turned round to face his attacker. But the more likely scenario is that as soon as Nevill realised that Sheila had hold of a weapon, he would attempt was to disarm her, rather than waste time phoning his son or the police.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 04:16:38 PM »
The Anschutz ejects used shells from the right hand side exit hole, so the obvious place where shooter fired from is the hatched area where most of the shells ended up on the carpet, which is what it more or less says on the diagram. I worked out exactly what it did read once, but don't remember the exact wording.

I can't understand why you don't see how simple the answer is. The attacker's intention was to kill everybody with head shots while they were asleep (it worked successfully with the twins). Nevill was too sharp - his mouth wounds might have been received while in bed, although there is no evidence of blood on his pillow or bedclothes on his side of the bed. Maybe he got up too quickly for any to have dripped there, and only started to bleed profusely once he had got out of bed. Or he was shot while standing at his side of the bed, possibly near the end and facing towards the main doorway.

A plan specially made for you...


Nevill didn't necessarily receive any shots in the NE zone... June was wandering about occupying that area after being shot anyway. The killer is thought to have stood in the hatched area and fired from there roughly westwards towards Nevill on his side of the bed. If Nevill was desperate to escape his attacker then he probably pushed his way past JB to get away from the onslaught. He might even have received the defence wounds to his forearm in the bedroom (rather than in the kitchen) before shoving his opponent out of the way. There was a bullet casing found on the stairs which probably accounted for the arm wound Nevill received on his way downstairs.

According to your theory, if Nevill came into the bedroom from the landing, then in order to receive the wounds to his mouth he must have moved fully into the room in the region of his own bedside and turned round to face his attacker. But the more likely scenario is that as soon as Nevill realised that Sheila had hold of a weapon, he would attempt was to disarm her, rather than waste time phoning his son or the police.

Thank you Myster. 

I just cant get my head round JB, a marksman, letting NB escape from his side of the bed opposite to where JB was standing in the main entrance/hatched area.  I think the pathologist was of the opinion that NB received the two facial shots and arm shot in the bedroom and shoulder shot (grazing) on the stairs with the four head shots in the kitchen.  This doesn't exactly tie up with the bullet location as only three bullets were found in the kitchen? 

It worked successfully with the twins as it appears (I hope) they were asleep and knew nothing of the unfolding horror.  They did not leave their beds that's for certain.  June and NB left their bed.  NB's side the covers appear as though he sort of pulled them back over ?  Whereas June's side they are not pulled back over just left back.  I firmly believe that if JB caught NB and June unaware he would have fired successful head shots to both while their heads were on the pillow.  He surely would have shot NB first.

It is said there was a bright moon on the night hence JB could see his way back clearly on the bike/sea wall.  This being the case and assuming the curtains in the main bedroom didn't have black out lining ? then there would have been enough light for JB to see to get in headshots?

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 06:46:12 PM »
I go with  the pathologist... four headshots in the kitchen delivered in two groups, resulting in two wounds close together to the top right-hand side of the head and two similar ones just above the right ear, most likely while NB's head was resting in the scuttle, i.e. lower than the killer and his rifle. Three shell cases found on the kitchen floor under the table and the myth/speculation/truth that the fourth might have been carried upstairs on the sole of a policeman's boot. Could even have rolled its way under the Welsh-Dresser and/or was swept up unseen and lost in all the floor dirt and broken glass, then disposed of by the clean-up crew.

Bed clothes on Nevill's side could have been tidied up by JB while he was carefully arranging SC's body on the floor. In the same way he might have straightened the clothes on Sheila's bed to make it look as if it hadn't been slept in and she'd been wandering about in the night.

Sometimes things don't go according to plan, Holls. You might be a perfectionist, such as wanting to know distances down to the last millimetre (dare I mention OCD?).  JB not necessarily so.  His pumping adrenaline and nerves on edge might have played a part in wanting to get the whole thing over as quickly as possible, June being the nearest and easier target as he entered.

Depends on where the moon was in the sky and whether there was cloud cover during the incident. Possibly a warm early August night with the curtains drawn open so perhaps not totally dark inside.  If the downstairs hall light or the landing light was turned on during the night (say for the twins' or Sheila's benefit) some stray light might have filtered its way into the bedroom aiding his vision as he opened the door.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 10:01:01 PM »
June Bamber was first shot as she sat in bed.  After she was shot she fell back on her pillows before managing to get out of bed where she was shot again, this time fatally.  Her body was found where she fell between the bed and the bedroom door.  See official crimescene depiction below.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 12:47:59 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 12:54:08 PM »
Untrue Holly.  June was first shot as she sat in bed.  After she was shot she fell back on her pillows before managing to get out of bed where she was shot again, this time fatally.  Her body was found where she fell between the bed and the bedroom door.  See official crimescene depiction below.



Yes sorry I didn't mean to imply that June died in bed but I do think she was severely disabled before getting out of bed and taking a step or two in the bedroom until she collapsed?  She received the following shots:

Head x 2 - Dr V said these were the most serious and would probably have caused death quite rapidly,
Chest x 2 - also serious but relatively longer to effect a fatal outcome
Abdomen x 1 - "                          "                        "
Arm x 1 - probably caused in an attempt to protect against firestorm
Leg x 1 -        "                        "                   "

Is it known from the pathological evidence which shots June received in bed and the order of all 7?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 01:18:47 PM »
There's an anomaly with the above CS plan and the two casings found on the landing and stairs (DRH13 & 14) which it says were associated with June during a "Second" episode, probably when the killer returned to make sure she was dead. So if this is accurate, Nevill must have received all his wounds (other than the four in the kitchen) within the bedroom, rather than a further one to his shoulder as he was going downstairs.

I don't understand why there are two DRH7 casings and two DRH35 bullets(?).  Brass shell casings don't usually break apart when ejected, do they?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.