Ballistic analyses relating to Nevill and June Bamber.

[Holly Goodhead]

There's an anomaly with the above CS plan and the two casings found on the landing and stairs (DRH13 & 14) which it says were associated with June during a "Second" episode, probably when the killer returned to make sure she was dead. So if this is accurate, Nevill must have received all his wounds (other than the four in the kitchen) within the bedroom, rather than a further one to his shoulder as he was going downstairs.

I don't understand why there are two DRH7 casings and two DRH35 bullets(?).  Brass shell casings don't usually break apart when ejected, do they?

I must confess this is not an aspect of the case I am familiar with so please don't shoot me down in flames if I say something daft!  I assume that the pathologist removes all bullets and fragments and they are identified by some sort of scan/xray?  And if he was unable to remove complete or partial bullets he would state such? 

Why is the style of numbering on 13 and 14 slightly different?  Does this denote another room?

We know for sure June received 7 gunshot wounds and NB 8 gunshot wounds. Dr V recovered 4 whole bullets from June and 7 whole bullets and 1 fragment from NB.  A total of 12 cases are shown in CS diagram (excl SC) and 3 further cases were found in the kitchen.  I think maybe 35 and 7 have been transposed and should represent a bullet and case for each of 35 and 7?  One of the bullets found in the bedroom must represent the bulk of the bullet that NB received which fragmented?  In any event it cannot be correct that bullet 5,9, 35 and 35 are attributed to June since she was shot 7 times and Dr V recovered 4 whole bullets?  (I guess 35 could have fragmented as it exited/ricocheted and 7 could represent the case and the bulk of the bullet that NB received which fragmented?).  Like many WHF case related documents they are of poor quality in terms of accuracy and clarity. 

DRH 13 and 15 have a question mark by them so I guess the author was unsure?

I have  always found the pathology report ambiguous in that I don't find it entirely conclusive that NB received the four head shots in the kitchen? Dr V seems to leave it open for that interpretation?

NB's blood type/group was found on wallpaper in the hall near the kitchen door?  I assume this was caused by NB brushing against the wall? 

[Myster]

I must confess this is not an aspect of the case I am familiar with so please don't shoot me down in flames if I say something daft!  I assume that the pathologist removes all bullets and fragments and they are identified by some sort of scan/xray?  And if he was unable to remove complete or partial bullets he would state such?

You're way too bright a flame to be extinguished so easily! (just like one of those birthday cake candles that are impossible to blow out).

Obviously hidden bullets and fragments are recorded by X-ray before PM begins, as in the case of SC's neck radiograph, the only one available to us, so others must have been taken. It's normal to state if any can't be removed, but again I've not seen any reference to this in the pathology reports.

Why is the style of numbering on 13 and 14 slightly different?  Does this denote another room?

Yes I think it's because they were found on the landing and stairs rather than the bedroom.

We know for sure June received 7 gunshot wounds and NB 8 gunshot wounds. Dr V recovered 4 whole bullets from June and 7 whole bullets and 1 fragment from NB.  A total of 12 cases are shown in CS diagram (excl SC) and 3 further cases were found in the kitchen.  I think maybe 35 and 7 have been transposed and should represent a bullet and case for each of 35 and 7?  One of the bullets found in the bedroom must represent the bulk of the bullet that NB received which fragmented?  In any event it cannot be correct that bullet 5,9, 35 and 35 are attributed to June since she was shot 7 times and Dr V recovered 4 whole bullets?  (I guess 35 could have fragmented as it exited/ricocheted and 7 could represent the case and the bulk of the bullet that NB received which fragmented?).  Like many WHF case related documents they are of poor quality in terms of accuracy and clarity. 

The dual numbering of 7 and 35 doesn't make sense to me. The later diagram is probably more accurate after the police had thought through and revised the number and positions of bullets and cases. The end result is the same - Nevill Bamber was first shot in the bedroom before making his way to the kitchen.

DRH 13 and 15 have a question mark by them so I guess the author was unsure?

You mean DRH 13 & 14?     "from doorway?" can be interpreted in different ways. If it just refers to 14 it could mean that 14 found its way down to the stair half-landing "from the doorway"... or if it refers to both 13 & 14 then it could mean that the bullets were fired from the landing doorway rather than from within the hatched bedroom area.

I have  always found the pathology report ambiguous in that I don't find it entirely conclusive that NB received the four head shots in the kitchen? Dr V seems to leave it open for that interpretation?

I think Vanezis is quite specific that all four head wounds 1, 2, 3 and 4 were received downstairs... see attached pathology sheets.

NB's blood type/group was found on wallpaper in the hall near the kitchen door?  I assume this was caused by NB brushing against the wall?

Don't know how large this stain was or how high up on the wall, but it might have come from blood sprayed from the mouth wounds, or dripping from his left arm or shoulder wound.
 

[John]

It has always been my understanding that DRH 7 and DRH 35 were matched casings/bullets used to shoot Junes in bed.  The referencing being two bullets DRH 35 and their respective casings DRH 7.

Casings DRH 39 are also referenced as a pair.  In total I count 25 casings with the victims sustaining 25 wounds as follows:

Nevill shot 8 times
June shot 7 times
Daniel shot 5 times
Nicholas shot 3 times
Sheila shot twice

I agree with your observation above re the assignment of the bullets Myster.  June sustained three exits wounds thus DRH 35 times 2 and DRH 9.   DRH 5 must therefore relate to Nevill who had only one exit wound.

I also cannot see how casings DRH 13 and DRH 14 could possibly relate to June so can only relate to Nevill as do DRH 3, DRH 4 and DRH 43. That thus accounts for all 12 casings associated with Nevill and June in and near the bedroom.  Add the three further casings from the kitchen gives a total of 15 casings which equates to Nevill being shot 8 times and June 7 times.

Now my brain is sore so off for a frigging coffee!

[Holly Goodhead]

The Anschutz ejects used shells from the right hand side exit hole, so the obvious place where shooter fired from is the hatched area where most of the shells ended up on the carpet, which is what it more or less says on the diagram. I worked out exactly what it did read once, but don't remember the exact wording.

I can't understand why you don't see how simple the answer is. The attacker's intention was to kill everybody with head shots while they were asleep (it worked successfully with the twins). Nevill was too sharp - his mouth wounds might have been received while in bed, although there is no evidence of blood on his pillow or bedclothes on his side of the bed. Maybe he got up too quickly for any to have dripped there, and only started to bleed profusely once he had got out of bed.Or he was shot while standing at his side of the bed, possibly near the end and facing towards the main doorway.

A plan specially made for you...


Nevill didn't necessarily receive any shots in the NE zone... June was wandering about occupying that area after being shot anyway. The killer is thought to have stood in the hatched area and fired from there roughly westwards towards Nevill on his side of the bed. If Nevill was desperate to escape his attacker then he probably pushed his way past JB to get away from the onslaught. He might even have received the defence wounds to his forearm in the bedroom (rather than in the kitchen) before shoving his opponent out of the way. There was a bullet casing found on the stairs which probably accounted for the arm wound Nevill received on his way downstairs.

According to your theory, if Nevill came into the bedroom from the landing, then in order to receive the wounds to his mouth he must have moved fully into the room in the region of his own bedside and turned round to face his attacker. But the more likely scenario is that as soon as Nevill realised that Sheila had hold of a weapon, he would attempt was to disarm her, rather than waste time phoning his son or the police.

The pathological evidence states the blood loss from NB's face wounds would be substantial as the area contains a rich blood supply.  Therefore I am surprised that none of NB's blood was found on the tested samples of the bedroom carpet if he received gunshot wounds while in bed or anywhere near his side of the bed/foot of bed.

57. Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys. Since the boys seem to have been shot in their beds, it is a clear inference that this was Mr. Bamber's blood.

[Myster]

The pathological evidence states the blood loss from NB's face wounds would be substantial as the area contains a rich blood supply.  Therefore I am surprised that none of NB's blood was found on the tested samples of the bedroom carpet if he received gunshot wounds while in bed or anywhere near his side of the bed/foot of bed.

57. Five carpet samples taken from the main bedroom were examined and found to bear numerous spots of dripped blood. These were tested and found to match the blood groupings of June Bamber. Wallpaper from the hallway to the left-hand side of the kitchen door was found, on examination, to be stained with human blood consistent with the blood grouping shared by Nevill Bamber and the twin boys. Since the boys seem to have been shot in their beds, it is a clear inference that this was Mr. Bamber's blood.

I expect Nevill's first reaction to being shot in the mouth was to put his hand(s) to the wound to stem the blood flow, some of it being swallowed and some soaking into his pyjama top.  So in the few seconds when he was trying to escape none dripped onto the carpet, whereas June wandered around the room for longer hence her blood being present. There might even have been other parts of the carpet (underneath  Sheila for example) or the bedclothes which did have his blood but weren't analysed, because Jeremy Bamber was crafty enough to sign a disposal agreement to have the effects burned before the police had second thoughts on the murder/suicide theory.

[John]

You can clearly see in the above diag where the ejected shells in the bedroom all ended up proving that the gunman was standing in the bedroom somewhere between the door and the end of the bed.

I don't believe for a moment that Jeremy was able to get into the bedroom and shoot Neville as he lay in bed.  In fact, I would be surprised if someone like Nevill Bamber didn't lock his bedroom door at night as a further security measure against intruders but I don't recall having seen any mention of this in any statements.  If the door was locked then Neville had to open it from the inside as there is no evidence of it being forced. When he opened it he would have been faced by a rifle wielding Jeremy.  It is my belief that he was shot at close range at least twice before Jeremy turned the gun on June as she lay or sat up in bed.  Bamber would have been shocked to find that two bullets were not enough to kill so emptied his magazine into his parents forcing him to retreat and seek additional ammunition from downstairs. 

[Holly Goodhead]

You can clearly see in the above diag where the ejected shells in the bedroom all ended up proving that the gunman was standing in the bedroom somewhere between the door and the end of the bed.

I don't believe for a moment that Jeremy was able to get into the bedroom and shoot Neville as he lay in bed.  In fact, I would be surprised if someone like Nevill Bamber didn't lock his bedroom door at night as a further security measure against intruders but I don't recall having seen any mention of this in any statements.  If the door was locked then Neville had to open out from the inside as there is no evidence of it being forced. When he opened it he would have been faced by a rifle wielding Jeremy.  It is my belief that he was shot at close range at least twice before Jeremy turned the gun on June as she lay or sat up in bed.  Bamber would have been shocked to find that two bullets were not enough to kill so emptied his magazine into his parents forcing him to seek additional ammunition from downstairs.

Is there any evidence showing June's position when she received the shots in bed?

Carpet samples taken from the bedroom only show June's blood type/group.  Why was none of NB's found?  Were any blood trails found from the bedroom to the kitchen?    And if yes why were carpet samples not taken from these locations?  NB's blood type/group was found on wallpaper between the hall and kitchen?  Was any of NB's blood type/group found on the kitchen floor other than around his final resting place? 

It seems unlikely that JB/SC entered the main bedroom via the twins' room/box room?

[scipio_usmc]

Why was NB not shot in bed?  Why would JB not deal with his greatest obstacle in order of priority?  Why would JB shoot/maim June a petite woman of perhaps a slightly anxious disposition before shooting/maiming NB a powerfully built man who was military trained?  NB was shot well away from the bed while he was standing.  JB was considered a marksman so he would have been more than capable of successful head shots.  He could  then have fired other random shots  to make it appear amateurish/frenzied.

How could he claim Nevill phoned him if both were shot and killed in bed?  He needed Nevill out of bed to be able to pretend Nevill made a phone call to him.  The phone call was integral to his plan so integral he told Julie in advance about such.  The pretend call from Nevill was both his alibi and also a significant part of his effort to frame Sheila.

Saying Nevill called him would not be credible if Nevill had been killed in bed.  It still ended up not being credible because he shot Nevill upstairs before he made it downstairs to the kitchen but Jeremy didn't realize they would figure out he was shot upstairs first.

As for what you choose to believe regarding Neivll making the call:

Hearing gunshots would not prompt him to hang the phone up and hang up the phone or just drop the phone and go check it out.  He would not take the time to hang the phone up and then take it off the hook so no one can call the house while he goes to check.

In the meantime he would have had no reason to call Jeremy.  You ignore that time and again. 

1) Why would he leave Sheila alone so she could go threaten June and the boys and why would June stay in bed?

2) If he felt Sheila needed to be disarmed why would he not do it himself?  Why would he call Jeremy who would take 15 or more minutes to arrive instead of doing it himself?  He was stronger than Jeremy and bigger than Jeremy and of course much stronge rand bigger than Sheila.  Why would he want a weaker person who woudl take a while to get there to do it instead of doing it himself?  With time of the essence you do it yourself.

3) If he was too scared to disarm her himself without any weapons why wouldn't he grab one of the weapons available in the kitchen to use to confront her with?  The kitchen had knives, pokers, guns and other weapons. If extremely worried tyou grab a gun that is the ultimate weapon to use to confront someone with a gun.

4) Jeremy did not get along with Sheila and would have made matters worse not calm her down

5) Jeremy had an answering machine and the phone was on a different floor than his bedroom so Nevill would have gotten an answering machine and had to hope Jeremy would wake up, go to his answering machine, listen to the message and call back.

6) If Jeremy actually received such a call why would he initially do nothing then call Julie?  SOmeone actually receiving such a call would phone 999 or rush right over not do nothing and then when finally deciding to do something to call Julie.  Worse he lied and insisted he immediately called police though we know for sure he called Julie first.  Why did he lie about calling police first?  Quite clearly because he knew that gave away the fact he received no such call and Julie's testimony makes that clear.

You also ignore all the evidence that proves Sheial can't have killed anyone and thus there would be no reaosn for Nevill to make a call saying SHeila was running around with a gun.

But as they say ignorance is bliss and since you can make up any nonsense you feel like you don't really care about what the evidence shows...

[John]

I agree that the fake telephone call by Nevill was part of the plan but I think Jeremy had to stop Nevill leaving the bedroom otherwise as Holly stated earlier he was a threat to the entire scheme.  No doubt Jeremy conceived a plan whereby Nevill went down to the kitchen, made the call before returning to the bedroom where a deranged Sheila shot him.  This plan backfired (sorry about pun) because Jeremy seriously underestimated the stopping power of the .22 rifle.

Nevill wasn't shot in bed because he was alerted to an intruder in the house, an alert which most probably was made by June Bambers dog Crispy.  The bedroom door would have been barred from the inside so when Nevill realised he had no phone in the bedroom he realised he needed to get to the kitchen in order to summon help.  He was shot several times just inside the bedroom after opening the door, the shooter then turned his attention to June who was still in bed at this stage and shot her several times.

Nevill somehow managed to stumble down the stairs and ended up in the kitchen.  What isn't known is whether the shooter went down to the kitchen to get more ammunition and was followed by Nevill or whether the shooter followed Neville down the stairs before fighting with him in the kitchen.  An empty shell casing was found at the bottom of the stairs but there is no way of knowing for sure how it got there.

The basic sequence of events can easily be determined, the shootings in the master bedroom followed by the fight with Neville in the kitchen followed by what only can be considered as his execution thereafter by three further shots to his head.

[John]

I don't believe there was any way Sheila could have threatened Nevill with the rifle as he could have disarmed her very easily.  Even if she got off one shot he could still have overpowered her by force.

And all the while we are asked to believe that June lay in bed paralysed by fear.  I don't think so.  &%&£(+

[Holly Goodhead]

I don't believe there was any way Sheila could have threatened Nevill with the rifle as he could have disarmed her very easily.  Even if she got off one shot he could still have overpowered her by force.

And all the while we are asked to believe that June lay in bed paralysed by fear.  I don't think so.  &%&£(+

I don't believe June lay in bed paralysed by fear.  I think the shots she received whilst in bed rendered her severely disabled so much that all she was capable of doing was leaving her bed, taking a couple of steps and collapsing on the floor 

When NB appeared at the bedroom door, having left the kitchen/phone call to JB, the shots he received to his face and arm rendered him severely disabled too so much that all he was capable of doing was retreating to the kitchen where he was effectively a sitting duck 

I think some hold stereotypical images of females being incapable of serious  violence and aggression.  I am reminded of the cases of Tracie Andrews and Jayne Andrews.  Both murdered their partners who were young,  fit, healthy, strong and athletic males.  Tracie Andrews stabbed her partner, Lee Harvey, 30 - 40 times with a penknife.  Why didn't he overpower her?  Jayne Andrews clubbed her partner, Thomas Cressman, with a cricket bat and stabbed him.  Why didn't he overpower her? 

http://murderpedia.org/female.A/a/andrews-tracie.htm

http://murderpedia.org/female.A/a/andrews-jane.htm

[abs]

In one of the two crime scene photos I have of June, there is a clear barefoot footprint in the carpet. I don´t like to post the entire photo, it is graphic. Here it is cropped. I could post a link, but don´t want to do that without permission.

[Holly Goodhead]

In one of the two crime scene photos I have of June, there is a clear barefoot footprint in the carpet. I don´t like to post the entire photo, it is graphic. Here it is cropped. I could post a link, but don´t want to do that without permission.

Ummm.  Yes around the toe area but no at the arch which appears to be too much at an angle?  It reminds me of a footprint in wet sand that sort of moves?

[Passer-by]

There was no phone call from Nevill to the police that morning... the only one they received was from Jeremy Bamber.

Most of the shell casings were found on the floor of the master bedroom, so Nevill was shot and wounded there, not on the stairs lower down than his assailant.

The casings were in the bedroom, indicating the gun was fired in the bedroom, not whether Nevill was standing in it or in the doorway.

[Holly Goodhead]

The casings were in the bedroom, indicating the gun was fired in the bedroom, not whether Nevill was standing in it or in the doorway.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5594.0;attach=4506