Author Topic: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body  (Read 80011 times)

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Alfred R Jones

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Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #150 on: February 24, 2015, 09:00:39 PM »
Good evening Alf.
I would imagine he was pretty familiar with the farm so driving around searching would not come into into the equation, he would know. A competent digger operator would open up a trench shove in the body and backfill in about ten minutes; fifteen minutes top whack.
How big do you think 276 acres is? (how big's a cubit anyway?). It would have a perimeter of about 4km so how long to drive round that? At 15kph that's about say 15 minutes. Even assuming he went the long way round the farm that still leaves 30/35 minutes to drive to the pub and have a quick one and so on. He wouldn't need to be greased lightning exactly.
Just saying like  8(>((
Before you ask I am not saying anything other than he would be familiar with the farm; 15 minutes; 4km;15 minutes; residual time 30 minutes minimum.
Thank you for your input.  Interesting that you always challenge my point of view, and rarely if ever agree with it.  But I'm glad you agree with Spam that it was do-able.  Now you can turn your towering intellect to explaining what the dog alerted to in the living room.

Offline Eleanor

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #151 on: February 24, 2015, 09:03:13 PM »
Her untouched bank accounts, all her belongings being left at home & Adrian not bothering to inform the police for about 4 days was a bit of a clue really though wasn't it.

Besides, The fact that the McCanns are neither persons of interest or suspects proves that cadaver dogs don't alert to cadaver scent in the first place.

They didn't have anything at all on The McCanns.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #152 on: February 24, 2015, 09:09:20 PM »
Her untouched bank accounts, all her belongings being left at home & Adrian not bothering to inform the police for about 4 days was a bit of a clue really though wasn't it.

Besides, The fact that the McCanns are neither persons of interest or suspects proves that cadaver dogs don't alert to cadaver scent in the first place.

I'll let it go this time but your mention of the mccanns is off topic

Offline Brietta

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #153 on: February 24, 2015, 09:20:06 PM »
They didn't have anything at all on The McCanns.

... the McCanns were unfamiliar with Praia Da Luz having been there for a matter of days, so how on earth were they able to locate a hiding place for a little girls body which remained undiscovered by locals, by civilian searchers, by police dog teams, by forestry workers, by firemen and by feral dogs and other scavengers?

They did not have access to digging implements either mechanical or manual.

Mind you ... the PJ did have a barking dog to put up against them ... pity it was so prone to getting 'the scent of death' wrong.

In the Prout case the dog alerted to a spot where there had been no body and totally ignored the murder scene.  I wonder how far behind that put the case against Adrian Prout?
The police would have torn what they thought was the crime scene apart in the meantime there could have been forensic traces in the shooting lodge ... but who was looking there.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Alfred R Jones

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Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #154 on: February 24, 2015, 09:21:17 PM »
Detective inspector Steve Bean of Gloucestershire Police told the inquest in Gloucester that Prout was 'tearful and remorseful' as he confessed to killing his wife.


He said: 'To make everything appear normal, he then went to a local pub for the evening.
'He drove around the farm looking for somewhere to bury the body and he settled on an area called Cophill Wood, where he buried it under a pheasant pen.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139103/Millionaire-farmer-strangled-wife-driving-pub-glass-whisky-inquest-hears.html#ixzz3ShReDGgw
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------------------------

Amazing what you can do in an hour innit?!

Offline faithlilly

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #155 on: February 24, 2015, 09:30:47 PM »
It was in woodland that he buried her and the police drove him there from his front in a 4X4.
I cant see a photo of woodland around or near the house, but may wrong.
Take your pick of the pictures, Faith

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-15788696
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062923/Kate-Prout-murder-Husband-Adrian-confesses-shows-police-Red-Hill-Farm-grave.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-15794829
http://metro.co.uk/2011/11/18/adrian-prout-reveals-redhill-farm-grave-of-murdered-wife-kate-in-gloucestershire-224055/

Thank you Anna but I know whee he buried the body but where was she killed, how was the body moved and how do we know the sequence of events ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline faithlilly

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #156 on: February 24, 2015, 09:42:38 PM »
... the McCanns were unfamiliar with Praia Da Luz having been there for a matter of days, so how on earth were they able to locate a hiding place for a little girls body which remained undiscovered by locals, by civilian searchers, by police dog teams, by forestry workers, by firemen and by feral dogs and other scavengers?

They did not have access to digging implements either mechanical or manual.

Mind you ... the PJ did have a barking dog to put up against them ... pity it was so prone to getting 'the scent of death' wrong.

In the Prout case the dog alerted to a spot where there had been no body and totally ignored the murder scene.  I wonder how far behind that put the case against Adrian Prout?
The police would have torn what they thought was the crime scene apart in the meantime there could have been forensic traces in the shooting lodge ... but who was looking there.

Large bins proliferate PDL and there would certainly be on the route Smithman seemed to be taking. If the body was found during the searches any injuries found on or drugs found in the body could be blamed on the abductor. If the body was not found then it may have been the plan to move it to a safer, more appropriate place of interment later. Unfortunately Smithman wasn't aware of the early morning bin collections.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Anna

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #157 on: February 24, 2015, 09:49:57 PM »
Thank you Anna but I know whee he buried the body but where was she killed, how was the body moved and how do we know the sequence of events ?

My answer was to the question, below, Faith.

Sorry but have we established how far the burial site was from the farmhouse and would it have been possible to move the body there without the use of the land rover ?

I believe he killed her in the hunting lodge... as his confession and then when sure she was dead, wrapped her up and went to the pub. I can't see what he would gain from lying. I don't know where the hunting lodge was, but it should be in a photo somewhere. Sorry I can't help further.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #158 on: February 24, 2015, 09:50:50 PM »
Many past and ongoing studies have been conducted to ascertain various aspects of the skills of working dogs; from those trained to sniff out bed bugs to those trained to sniff out cancers.

The influence of handlers on their dogs is also of interest to scientists.

Although the testing carried out and recorded in the abstract printed below concerns drug and explosive search dogs the same outcomes would be expected of sniffer dogs of all disciplines as the relationship of dog and human is what makes the team work effectively.

I found the test results of interest.


Handler beliefs affect scent detection dog outcomes.
Lit L1, Schweitzer JB, Oberbauer AM.
Author information
Abstract

Our aim was to evaluate how human beliefs affect working dog outcomes in an applied environment.

We asked whether beliefs of scent detection dog handlers affect team performance and evaluated relative importance of human versus dog influences on handlers' beliefs.

Eighteen drug and/or explosive detection dog/handler teams each completed two sets of four brief search scenarios (conditions).

Handlers were falsely told that two conditions contained a paper marking scent location (human influence).

Two conditions contained decoy scents (food/toy) to encourage dog interest in a false location (dog influence).

Conditions were (1) control; (2) paper marker; (3) decoy scent; and (4) paper marker at decoy scent.

No conditions contained drug or explosive scent; any alerting response was incorrect.

A repeated measures analysis of variance was used with search condition as the independent variable and number of alerts as the dependent variable.

Additional nonparametric tests compared human and dog influence.

There were 225 incorrect responses, with no differences in mean responses across conditions.

Response patterns differed by condition.

There were more correct (no alert responses) searches in conditions without markers.

Within marked conditions, handlers reported that dogs alerted more at marked locations than other locations.

Handlers' beliefs that scent was present potentiated handler identification of detection dog alerts.

Human more than dog influences affected alert locations.

This confirms that handler beliefs affect outcomes of scent detection dog deployments.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21225441
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #159 on: February 24, 2015, 10:01:40 PM »
My answer was to the question, below, Faith.

I believe he killed her in the hunting lodge... as his confession and then when sure she was dead, wrapped her up and went to the pub. I can't see what he would gain from lying. I don't know where the hunting lodge was, but it should be in a photo somewhere. Sorry I can't help further.

No problem Anna but I just can't seem to find any mention of the hunting lodge but I'm sure someone will provide me with a cite soon enough.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline DCI

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Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #160 on: February 24, 2015, 10:02:56 PM »
My answer was to the question, below, Faith.

I believe he killed her in the hunting lodge... as his confession and then when sure she was dead, wrapped her up and went to the pub. I can't see what he would gain from lying. I don't know where the hunting lodge was, but it should be in a photo somewhere. Sorry I can't help further.

Does this help, lodge to the left on pic, I think!

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Alfred R Jones

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Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #161 on: February 24, 2015, 10:15:01 PM »
No problem Anna but I just can't seem to find any mention of the hunting lodge but I'm sure someone will provide me with a cite soon enough.
Have you lost the ability to google?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-adrian-prout-leads-police-92528

Offline Anna

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2015, 10:24:11 PM »
Does this help, lodge to the left on pic, I think!



Thank you DCI. Its a shooting lodge, but it didn't stop you guys finding it.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline faithlilly

Re: Cadaver Dog Alert Convictions without a body
« Reply #163 on: February 24, 2015, 10:26:54 PM »
Have you lost the ability to google?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killer-adrian-prout-leads-police-92528

Of course not but the article you link to below only says this :

Snip...
'It is thought he has admitted he strangled Kate in a shooting lodge at the farm on Bonfire Night 2007 after she demanded an £800,000 clean-break divorce he could not afford without selling the estate.'

I'm afraid I was looking for evidence that he had confessed to strangling her in the hunting lodge but so far all I've found is supposition such as the claim above.
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Anna

“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato