Author Topic: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?  (Read 42664 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #135 on: February 10, 2015, 07:30:27 AM »
does it really matter

It's a valid point.

Offline Benice

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #136 on: February 10, 2015, 08:25:50 AM »
I wonder whether these Secrecy Laws hail back to the time before 'democracy'.     If so it's about time they repealed the law IMO - even if one of the advantages is the 'protection' of the tourist trade      The downside of such a law is that it is open to abuse and therefore unacceptable imo.

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #137 on: February 10, 2015, 08:37:10 AM »
@ ShiningInLuz

It is almost certainly in technical breach of judicial secrecy.

The book is supposed to be based on the files up until his departure (some of it is, some of it isn't...). Numerous people involved in the publication process would have had access to the contents more than a month prior to secrecy being lifted. Some far earlier (editor, proof-reader, etc).

A Photoshop filter can easily transform photos into looking like sketched "drawings". My comment was tongue-in-cheek that someone actually sat down and drew them by hand.

As he obviously had access to those files while he was working on the investigation, it would have been easy enough to keep or obtain a copy when he left.

On your comments here:

"Amaral fairly accurately discloses the case summary that closes the file, 3 days after the files were closed."

"How about whoever leaked the final PJ report shelving the case?  So that Amaral could copy the conclusion in his book, some 3 days later."


Where does he - accurately or otherwise - summarise the legal analysis or the final PJ report? What he presents as the police report and what some people to this day continue to flog as THE police report is the first interim report - the rambling ruminations signed by Tavares de Almeida written before he left.

If he had accurately summarised the legal report, i.e., that the initial suspicions were NOT confirmed, and that there was no evidence of a crime committed by any of the arguidos, he probably wouldn't have been sued.

That said, I find the technical breach over the book relatively unimportant in the scheme of things and deflects from the far greater issue of the leaky cauldron that was the entire investigation while under his command.

He may not have been personally involved leaking (whether all or any of the garbled half-myths), but if he hadn't approved of what was happening under his nose, he would have stopped it. He didn't.
 

Offline Carana

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #138 on: February 10, 2015, 08:45:23 AM »
I dont think his drawings are very accurate Shining.

The first thing is that in the top image the cots are running at right angles to Madeleines bed.  In the lower image they run parallel.  Rather an important point to get wrong, dont you think?.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SLGmBNgyehI/AAAAAAAAAoo/eThQ0I-tNDE/s400/cs1.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_p305OiLZRCU/SOfdFkCWw9I/AAAAAAAABlA/FdayzgZs7so/s400/dogs-1.jpg


Sadie, the top one is from the book and corresponds to the photo.


The bottom one with the text is based on whatever flew out of a PJ window into the waiting hands of the press one day. And, as you point out, numerous details are incorrect.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2015, 10:25:35 AM »
does it really matter

To most people I doubt it does; there are however those on here who think it is of the utmost import.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline Carana

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #140 on: February 10, 2015, 01:07:27 PM »
To most people I doubt it does; there are however those on here who think it is of the utmost import.

Hmmm.

I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)

Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.

His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.

After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.

Instead, the opposite happened.

The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.


Offline sadie

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #141 on: February 10, 2015, 01:22:04 PM »
Sadie, the top one is from the book and corresponds to the photo.


The bottom one with the text is based on whatever flew out of a PJ window into the waiting hands of the press one day. And, as you point out, numerous details are incorrect.
Thanks Carana.

So which way round were the beds at the time of the abduction?  I have seen them both ways in other images.  We are assuming that the traditional way we see them is correct ....  but is it?



Anyway to publish such innacurate pictures in a book [which is permanent and becomes "fact" in the eyes of the reader] is disgusting. 

It changes reality .... and people can be wrongly judged on such disinformation

Offline Carana

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #142 on: February 10, 2015, 01:30:53 PM »
Thanks Carana.

So which way round were the beds at the time of the abduction?  I have seen them both ways in other images.  We are assuming that the traditional way we see them is correct ....  but is it?



Anyway to publish such innacurate pictures in a book [which is permanent and becomes "fact" in the eyes of the reader] is disgusting. 

It changes reality .... and people can be wrongly judged on such disinformation

The "drawings" in the book correspond to the photos in the files (at least concerning 5A).

The earlier illustration, leaked to the media at some point prior to the book, is based on partial leaks.

For example, the dog's alleged alert outside was not in front of Madeleine's window as the illustration purports to show, but in the garden below the patio (which is on the other side of the flat). The fact that a dog allegedly alerted outside at all can only be due to a leak... but it was yet another half-baked one, like thousands of others.

Offline Carana

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #143 on: February 10, 2015, 01:38:09 PM »
He wasn't wrong.

Like Dr McCann says, she's either out there, or, she's not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw#t=470


Considering, according to the Dr's McCanns insistance, she's most definitely out there, why then do you think Mr McCann would even entertain the possibility that she's not?

I'll help you out, it's because she's not.

They have both said that they acknowledge that she may either still be alive or not, but until there is proof that she isn't alive, then they will continue to hope that she is.

If you can be so sure that she isn't alive, I can only presume that you were there that night and have intimate knowledge of what actually did occur.

You're not Smithman, by any chance? ;)

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #144 on: February 10, 2015, 01:53:44 PM »
They have both said that they acknowledge that she may either still be alive or not, but until there is proof that she isn't alive, then they will continue to hope that she is.

If you can be so sure that she isn't alive, I can only presume that you were there that night and have intimate knowledge of what actually did occur.

You're not Smithman, by any chance? ;)

Is not the issue, pay attention.

Dr McCann presents the following options.

1) She's out there.

2) She's not.

3) She's out there alive.


Clearly the she's not option includes not alive.

He considers that a possibility, her not being out there & not alive.

But hey, she's out there until proven otherwise, isn't she.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhACS6ck-Dw#t=470

If she really had been abducted there'd be no option 2, but there is.
Christian Brueckner Fan Club

Offline Brietta

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #145 on: February 10, 2015, 02:32:25 PM »
Hmmm.

I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)

Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.

His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.

After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.

Instead, the opposite happened.

The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.

I have never seen such a precise summation of the immediate and subsequent consequences of the writing of this book.

It took precedence over the official conclusions of the case from which Mr Amaral was dismissed and to this day there are still people who ridiculously think he is in possession of 'reveal all facts'.

It seems that a complaint that judicial secrecy was broken may already have been lodged with the prosecutors and may be why it was mentioned by the judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro.

**snip

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, alleged that Mr Amaral broke the law by sending a draft of his book to his publishers several months before the judicial secrecy period in the case was lifted in July 2008.

The lawyer also alleged that the ex-policeman released facts about the investigation that were not in the case files.

It will be for the Portuguese public prosecutor to decide whether the former detective has a case to answer.

http://metro.co.uk/2010/01/15/mccanns-lodge-complaint-with-police-33143/
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #146 on: February 10, 2015, 02:56:45 PM »
Hmmm.

I do find that there are more serious breaches than the fairly obvious one that he gave publishers access to restricted information prior to secrecy being lifted. (It does however raise questions as to what other breaches he may have been involved in...)

Aside from that, there is a question of TIMING.

His pre-publication round of interviews preceded the news of what the legal summary actually said and thus virtually eclipsed the conclusions that there was no evidence to indicate what had actually happened to her, nor any to support the idea that any of the arguidos had any involvement.

After so many half-baked leaks, the official conclusions should have helped to set the record straight in the press both for the McCanns and for Murat, and hopefully renewed the public's vigilance.

Instead, the opposite happened.

The wave of publicity for his book, prior to the publication, insisting that she was dead and the McCanns were involved, and that he 'knew so', was far more "juicy" than the the conclusions of the legal ruling relating to his tenure that his team had been barking up the wrong tree and didn't know how to climb back down.

&%+((£ That really wasn't the conclusion of the investigation. The conclusion was we've reached no conclusions. None.

But GA in 2008 knew very well how CM and the English papers would spin it. I'm sure that influenced him. He simply stuck to his opinion just like the English papers and columnists (and some Portuguese) did.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 03:01:40 PM by Lyall »

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #147 on: February 10, 2015, 03:29:34 PM »
I have never seen such a precise summation of the immediate and subsequent consequences of the writing of this book.

It took precedence over the official conclusions of the case from which Mr Amaral was dismissed and to this day there are still people who ridiculously think he is in possession of 'reveal all facts'.

It seems that a complaint that judicial secrecy was broken may already have been lodged with the prosecutors and may be why it was mentioned by the judge Maria Emilia Melo e Castro.

**snip

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer, Isabel Duarte, alleged that Mr Amaral broke the law by sending a draft of his book to his publishers several months before the judicial secrecy period in the case was lifted in July 2008.

The lawyer also alleged that the ex-policeman released facts about the investigation that were not in the case files.

It will be for the Portuguese public prosecutor to decide whether the former detective has a case to answer.

http://metro.co.uk/2010/01/15/mccanns-lodge-complaint-with-police-33143/

The Metro quote is knocking on five years old.
As I suggested in an earlier post if the Portuguese judiciary are hell bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws, their inclination to do so does not seem to have even the same sense of urgency as manana.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #148 on: February 10, 2015, 03:58:42 PM »
The Metro quote is knocking on five years old.
As I suggested in an earlier post if the Portuguese judiciary are hell bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws, their inclination to do so does not seem to have even the same sense of urgency as manana.
Who has claimed that the Portuguese Judiciary are "hell-bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws"?

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Did Gonçalo Amaral breach Portuguese secrecy laws?
« Reply #149 on: February 10, 2015, 04:42:40 PM »
Who has claimed that the Portuguese Judiciary are "hell-bent on nailing Dr Amaral for breaking judicial secrecy laws"?

I think I said "if" somewhere in my post.
My point being .....well you know precisely what my point was.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey