Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 70898 times)

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Offline sabbat49

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #480 on: May 01, 2020, 08:01:14 AM »
Bent cop, Wolfgang Bird approached Nicholls in a pub in January 96.  This was of course just weeks after the murders when Police had commenced their investigation/surveillance operation. 

I therefore find it quite believable that this could have been Nicholls first instance of "grassing".

Hello all.

Not really, early on in any criminal "career"  8)><( - police ask for stuff , when you are in the police station , or did in the early 90s, to be taken into consideration, these are labelled "TIC's" - many criminals were offered the opportunity to "cough" up more stuff to help police clear up other stuff/get results and a lesser/easier treatment.

If you look at this process it is the precursor to becoming an informant, it gets someone who has been caught, used to talking/giving up stuff.

It becomes an expected part of the process even.

How do i know?

I never gave a TIC to any copper when i was a bad lad in the early 90s - not a single 1.

 I had "mates" who would "cough" for stuff they didn't even do, low level stuff - criminal damage/TWOC/burglary.

If think in the 3 decades since i was a naughty boy, the police have perhaps stopped this.

Any other ex bad lads on this forum will be aware of "TIC's"
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 08:17:51 AM by sabbat49 »

Offline sabbat49

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #481 on: May 01, 2020, 08:14:34 AM »
Or liability!  I have no allegiance to any of these people. 

As it stands I think there's a lot more to this case than meets the eye and I'm more inclined to see Steele/Whomes innocent. 

I know I keep repeating it but I just don't understand the emphasis on Whomes' mobile calls at 18.59.  We know cells/masts are situated all over the country.  Whomes was in the vicinity of Rettendon therefore his calls were routed through masts at Ingatestone and Hockley.  Which masts were Nicholls calls received on?  I would like to see mast data for every call on all the relevant mobiles throughout the day to plot movements. 

If Tate was at Rettendon at 18.44 when he received his call from Sarah Saunders which mast was this call routed through?  If it wasn't Ingatestone or Hockley then this totally destroys the prosecution case.  Nicholls received a call on his mobile at 19.19 and 21.22.  He made a call at 19.55.  He may well have made others but these are listed on the schedule.  Which masts were these calls routed through?  Does it fit with his evidence? 

https://www.coolsmartphone.com/2016/11/10/locate-mobile-mast/

Something i have been looking at a lot is triangulation.
I was in the mobile industry at this time back in 95 - i can see with a click glance that the networks used in the statements are voda,cellnet and orange - via the dialing codes.

What people have to understand is that Orange had only just launched really, voda and cellnet were way ahead, 121 was a complete no no in rettendon, it barely worked outside the M25 in 1995.

Also -masts were not really shared in 1995. Certainly not a mast in a tiny hamlet in essex. Voda and Cellnet will have had base stations in nearby towns and certainly on the edge of the M25 - I actually had the mast database 20+ years ago for voda itself having working on behalf of them.

You are also looking at 2 - 8% of the population owning a digital mobile telephone in 1995 (analogue
cellnet and voda was still going strong).10% max.

As i say, orange, whcih if you look at statements relating to this on this site is used by tate and nicholls i think (tucker is voda) Orange was brand spanking new and was way behind in coverage.

Also being a nerd, Orange used what was then called GSM at a frequency of 1800mhz, which was roughly half the distance of Voda and Cellnet who operated at 900mhz. They began a lot of mast sharing in 98 and onwards and also voda and cellnet began using 1800mhz as it has advantages in cities for instance.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 08:21:36 AM by sabbat49 »

Offline sabbat49

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #482 on: May 01, 2020, 09:04:00 AM »
Here's a vid of farmer Peter Theobald shooting a wood pigeon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XAsQA85FU

No I'm not suggesting PT was responsible.  This type of shooting in terms of accuracy, skill etc is completely different from taking out 3 adult males at close range ambush style. 

I would say the perp was more along the lines of police marksman Tony Long (and I'm not suggesting him either).  or a member of the SAS/Iranian embassy siege or SEAL/Bin Laden.  This is the type of person psychologically and with this level of skill.   

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/aug/19/tony-long-secrets-of-a-police-marksman-channel-4-review

Judge Hidden or the expert I can't recall now said it was a given, or words to this effect, the perp was well versed with the firearm.  This is an understatement imo as it implies the perp simply knew how to operate it and downplays the skill required to take out the the murdered trio in the manner they were killed.
i know a  legal munitions and firearms tester, gauges bullets,barrells, the whole lot, he could hit a golf ball at a mile. Does it all day long. never been in the forces or police.

 I wont say where he works.

I know farmers where i live who could certainly get close to the golf ball, but wouldnt, because they are using a purdey or an over under.

It doesnt require special intelligence training to fire a shotgun at close range -  being able to use a shotgun would be handy and the desire to kill  -  thats a deadly combination + motive.


Offline sabbat49

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #483 on: May 01, 2020, 05:27:32 PM »
Well we can see from the tel schedules posted up here the calls made available to jurors and judge appear to have been cherry picked by the prosecution which create a narrative skewed towards the prosecution eg:

- Calls from phone boxes to Tucker and Tait but no mobile calls between Tait/Tucker and Steele/Whomes.

- A single call from a phone box to Nicholls.  This could create the impression there's some connection between the two gangs and call boxes are being  used to avoid leaving an electronic footprint coz Steele/Whomes are planning ahead .....

- Numerous calls between Nicholls, Steele and Whomes on their respective mobiles but no calls between the aforementioned Rolfe, Tait and Tucker. 

- Last known effective call taken by murdered trio 6.44pm to Tait from Sarah Saunders and an assumed tod based on this call with the call from Whomes to Nicholls calling up the knackered old Passat as the getaway car  8(>((

- Calls made by Steele/Whomes whilst in the vicinity of the soc at around the time it is thought the trio were murdered based on the above.

If I was a judge or juror on the face of it the above is pretty damn compelling coupled with much made of the dodgy batch of cannabis and Sarah Saunders advising Steele that Tate was talking about sending him up north albeit I believe Sarah Saunders (and Barry Dorman?) were witnesses for the defence and both said they didn't believe there was any ill feeling between Steele/Tait.

As far as I can see the defence didn't use any cell site data it merely attempted to defend like the worst Italian football teams instead of coming out attacking fast and hard like the best ManU teams with style and flair  8(>((

We know the 2 gangs had contact over drug deals so I would like to see the phone records over a much longer period of time.  I would also like to see cell site data for the whole 36 period before the murdered trio were found for Rolfe, Tate, Tucker, Nicholls, Steele and Whomes to plot their movements geographically. 

I would not trust the police in this case period as we know corruption was involved to some degree.  I would want to obtain info direct from tel comm companies and instruct experts to examine all the phones to ensure no foul play/tampering etc by police. 

As the phones were referred to at trial (exhibits) do they still exist for further investigation? 

A picture paints a thousand words and the picture above is a work of art.  I simply don't believe that it could be that perfect ie a masterpiece totally flawless!   8(0(* 

I don't think jurors were daft enough to totally buy into Nicholls testimony.  Imo it was the phone evidence that sent Steele/Whomes down.

The sad thing is that whomes has a Voda ETACS phone, which was proven not to have worked in workhouse lane. The signal was the same in 2000. yet he was not released there and then?The tests could not now be run again,as the ETACS service is long gone.
triangulation also/is was almost impossible under ETACS/analouge.

 one cell broadcast (ping from phone to cell - cell to phone) that could have been picked up,by the HLR (home location register)
was DN's orange mobile.
this is rudimentary to anyone in the mobile industry back then -we knew our product. a simple siterep for the VLR/HLR info would have been simple at the time from orange.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #484 on: June 13, 2020, 03:15:53 PM »
Apologies I haven't had time to reply to the posts above yet.

Meanwhile I would just like to highlight the following docu as imo the Rettendon Murders probably involve high level corruption:

https://www.channel4.com/press/news/murder-carpark-explores-1987-murder-daniel-morgan-most-investigated-unsolved-murder

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #485 on: June 15, 2020, 05:16:20 PM »
Apologies I haven't had time to reply to the posts above yet.

Meanwhile I would just like to highlight the following docu as imo the Rettendon Murders probably involve high level corruption:

https://www.channel4.com/press/news/murder-carpark-explores-1987-murder-daniel-morgan-most-investigated-unsolved-murder
Many thanks for the heads up Holly.  The Daniel Morgan case looks very interesting. 


Offline Chud

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #486 on: July 03, 2020, 10:59:19 PM »
Yep that was an eye opener that C4 documentary and well put together..