Why did the Ocean Club not call the police sooner?

[Anna]

Sorry about off topic Anna, I didn't realise. Threads are so similar!

Could one of the party not shout at staff "quick someone call the police" as they ran back to the flat?

Dianne webster stayed back? maybe the OC didn't understand what was going on? but let's say it is there fault anyway!

That's OK MTI, Its easy to go off topic, even I do it sometimes and it gets deleted.
 I don't think its anyone in particular's fault really.
I think the receptionist who had probably not experienced an emergency such as this, was just a bit nervous, confused and unsure of what to do, until he was given the OK from his superiors.
However nobody else thought to phone, unless of course they assumed that this chap had already done it.

A general thread on this subject is here, if it helps...............http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3271.msg189061#msg189061

[Alice Purjorick]

Do we know what the procedure should have been? The organisation must have had one.
So back to "Shining's" comment ages go.
"What was the trigger that prompted the call at 10:41?".
Presumably the process goes along the lines of: "My child is missing"-"details taken"-"search implemented" -"after a specified amount of time without finding the child, telephone the police"
vs
"My child has been abducted" -"call the police, call the police directly do not pass "Go" do not collect £200:00".
For the organisation to start it's procedure there is a prerequisite it has been formally advised of the event.

[G-Unit]

I think people mostly thought the child had wandered off, which is why the search was initiated. I don't know much about the Portuguese police, but there are pointers suggesting that a lot of Portuguese people might prefer not to be involved with them i.e. Jenny Murat's 'desk' for people who didn't want to talk to the police. The receptionist may have shared this view and been reluctant to telephone the police at the request of other workers or holidaymakers.Hhe called them when told to do so by an authority figure; John Hill.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Do we know what the procedure should have been? The organisation must have had one.
So back to "Shining's" comment ages go.
"What was the trigger that prompted the call at 10:41?".
Presumably the process goes along the lines of: "My child is missing"-"details taken"-"search implemented" -"after a specified amount of time without finding the child, telephone the police"
vs
"My child has been abducted" -"call the police, call the police directly do not pass "Go" do not collect £200:00".
For the organisation to start it's procedure there is a prerequisite it has been formally advised of the event.

Yes indeed! and someone shouting 'child abducted' would constitue what we call an EMERGENCY. Would a shy nervous employee not have the decency to shout to someone else about 'abducted child' and could they phone the police, if it was beyond their own  'training'. Do people really need suervisory permission to call emergency services..dearie me. I just assumed that the staff thought the parents or friends would phone the police, hence the delay in OC making the call.  Do we know why Diane Webster staye behind?

[Anna]

Do we know what the procedure should have been? The organisation must have had one.
So back to "Shining's" comment ages go.
"What was the trigger that prompted the call at 10:41?".
Presumably the process goes along the lines of: "My child is missing"-"details taken"-"search implemented" -"after a specified amount of time without finding the child, telephone the police"
vs
"My child has been abducted" -"call the police, call the police directly do not pass "Go" do not collect £200:00".
For the organisation to start it's procedure there is a prerequisite it has been formally advised of the event.

What triggered the call, Alice was John Hill's arrival I believe and IIRC a phone call with Vitor Santos where he says that he (Helder) had phoned the police several times. ???? The time stated as receiving the phone call 22-15, which said that J Hill was very agitated must have been wrong timing, because J Hill did nor arrive until 22-30
Santos
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-10.html
Helder
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193
John Hill
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post174.html#p174

[Anna]

Yes indeed! and someone shouting 'child abducted' would constitue what we call an EMERGENCY. Would a shy nervous employee not have the decency to shout to someone else about 'abducted child' and could they phone the police, if it was beyond their own  'training'. Do people really need suervisory permission to call emergency services..dearie me. I just assumed that the staff thought the parents or friends would phone the police, hence the delay in OC making the call.  Do we know why Diane Webster staye behind?

To be fair, MTI, I now realise that it is a possibility that they all thought that reception had dealt with it and phoned the police. Poor guy was probably in a dither not knowing what to do until he could reach his boss.

I was in a job, some time ago, where it was forbidden to call the police or ambulance until the Authority, or a doctor, was contacted. However I broke that law a few times, because the cases were too urgent to wait, but I was accustomed to emergencies, this chap was probably, only experienced in minor medical emergencies and petty crime.

The waiter called the receptionist after speaking to Diane and discovering a child was missing, around 22.10 to 22.15. This waiter IIRC helped in the searches, so he must have thought it was dealt with.

 Diane was told by the group, to stay in the restaurant in case Maddie returned there IIRC

[Alice Purjorick]

What triggered the call, Alice was John Hill's arrival I believe and IIRC a phone call with Vitor Santos where he says that he (Helder) had phoned the police several times. ???? The time stated as receiving the phone call 22-15, which said that J Hill was very agitated must have been wrong timing, because J Hill did nor arrive until 22-30
Santos
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-10.html
Helder
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193
John Hill
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post174.html#p174

According to John Hills deposition the Missing Child Procedure had been implemented by "Lindsay" at 22:28 at the latest and the GNR had arrived about 22:45 with the caveat that someone told him between the event and the time of his statement the GNR did not arrive until 23:30. The timings quoted by Hill in his deposition would not seem to support the 23:30 time.

[Miss Taken Identity]

To be fair, MTI, I now realise that it is a possibility that they all thought that reception had dealt with it and phoned the police. Poor guy was probably in a dither not knowing what to do until he could reach his boss.

I was in a job, some time ago, where it was forbidden to call the police or ambulance until the Authority, or a doctor, was contacted. However I broke that law a few times, because the cases were too urgent to wait, but I was accustomed to emergencies, this chap was probably, only experienced in minor medical emergencies and petty crime.

The waiter called the receptionist after speaking to Diane and discovering a child was missing, around 22.10 to 22.15. This waiter IIRC helped in the searches, so he must have thought it was dealt with.

 Diane was told by the group, to stay in the restaurant in case Maddie returned there IIRC

Yes, thank you for that Anna. I can understand a bit better now.

Note to self: If maddie was 'abducted' and Kate knew right away- with open windows and whooshing curtains an all, why would they ask Diane to wait to see if Maddie would go to the tapas? unless the 'abductor' was a friendly one?

This just get more stranger by the minute.

[Anna]

According to John Hills deposition the Missing Child Procedure had been implemented by "Lindsay" at 22:28 at the latest and the GNR had arrived about 22:45 with the caveat that someone told him between the event and the time of his statement the GNR did not arrive until 23:30. The timings quoted by Hill in his deposition would not seem to support the 23:30 time.

Most of the statement times are inaccurate for some reason or another, but I believe GNR have said 23hrs approx. they arrived. It was after the 22.51 phone call when Gerry was in reception with John Hill. They drove to OC with urgency apparently, on this second call. However long it takes to get there from their patrol area, so 23hrs to 23.15 seems right.

[G-Unit]

What triggered the call, Alice was John Hill's arrival I believe and IIRC a phone call with Vitor Santos where he says that he (Helder) had phoned the police several times. ???? The time stated as receiving the phone call 22-15, which said that J Hill was very agitated must have been wrong timing, because J Hill did nor arrive until 22-30
Santos
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9-10.html
Helder
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post193.html#p193
John Hill
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post174.html#p174

There was a phone call from the ocean Club Reception at 20.04 to a mobile number, one at 21.21 to a different mobile number and two to the GNR at 22.41 and 22.52.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg

[Anna]

Yes, thank you for that Anna. I can understand a bit better now.

Note to self: If maddie was 'abducted' and Kate knew right away- with open windows and whooshing curtains an all, why would they ask Diane to wait to see if Maddie would go to the tapas? unless the 'abductor' was a friendly one?

This just get more stranger by the minute.

I think they were just trying to protect her (Diane) from the panic of the situation, so gave an excuse, MTI. She was not as young as the others.
Whatever Kate and Gerry may have said, does not mean that the others believed that she was abducted, at that time.
None of us really know what happened to Madeleine.
 
Oh dear we have strayed off topic, so why did nobody call the police from OC until 22.41?

[Anna]

There was a phone call from the ocean Club Reception at 20.04 to a mobile number, one at 21.21 to a different mobile number and two to the GNR at 22.41 and 22.52.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_3051.jpg

Thanks, G,
I think the mobile calls were too early to be associated with the alert, but we know that he did call the GNR at the times you stated.

[Alice Purjorick]

I think they were just trying to protect her (Diane) from the panic of the situation, so gave an excuse, MTI. She was not as young as the others.
Whatever Kate and Gerry may have said, does not mean that the others believed that she was abducted, at that time.
None of us really know what happened to Madeleine.
 
Oh dear we have strayed off topic, so why did nobody call the police from OC until 22.41?

Given the rough chronology of events the options are:
Waiting for "time out" according to the implemented procedure or on John Hill's instruction when he arrived at reception.
But sticking with what we know; by 22:28 the missing child procedure was in place; at 22:41 & 22:52 the GNR received phone calls; 23:00 GNR were on site (Officer Roques deposition). The unanswered questions remain: At what time were reception notified of the missing child?; what if any was the allowable time delay in the process between commencing search and notifying the appropriate authorities?. If any one can answer those questions accurately we will know whether it was because of the system or a fundamentally slapdash approach.

[Brietta]

I think people mostly thought the child had wandered off, which is why the search was initiated. I don't know much about the Portuguese police, but there are pointers suggesting that a lot of Portuguese people might prefer not to be involved with them i.e. Jenny Murat's 'desk' for people who didn't want to talk to the police. The receptionist may have shared this view and been reluctant to telephone the police at the request of other workers or holidaymakers.Hhe called them when told to do so by an authority figure; John Hill.

A worrying situation is developing here, GU; you agreed with me yesterday and I agree with you today 

One of the nannies said, I believe, that children had always been found before ... suggesting that a lost child may not have been an unusual occurrence for them to deal with.

It was expected that Madeleine would be found.

As the realisation began to sink in that this particular child might not be found the searchers became more anxious and some were reported to be in tears.

The situation was absolutely without precedent and once called the GNR responded timeously, but I think the delay in making the initial call may have been a hierarchical one which a more proactive receptionist might have ignored.     

[Alice Purjorick]

A worrying situation is developing here, GU; you agreed with me yesterday and I agree with you today 

One of the nannies said, I believe, that children had always been found before ... suggesting that a lost child may not have been an unusual occurrence for them to deal with.

It was expected that Madeleine would be found.

As the realisation began to sink in that this particular child might not be found the searchers became more anxious and some were reported to be in tears.

The situation was absolutely without precedent and once called the GNR responded timeously, but I think the delay in making the initial call may have been a hierarchical one which a more proactive receptionist might have ignored.   

Which is it? A not unusual occurrence or unprecedented?
I find it hard to believe it can be both simultaneously.