Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[Eleanor]

Is There Any Hard Evidence?  At least let's try to get off to a good start.

[Mr Gray]

according to the expert in despatches..abduction would be very easy...in and out of the apartment in a minute..

[faithlilly]

according to the expert in despatches..abduction would be very easy...in and out of the apartment in a minute..

So why mess about opening windows and shutters ?

[stephen25000]

according to the expert in despatches..abduction would be very easy...in and out of the apartment in a minute..

anf yet not one iota of evidence to support it.

Mind you , for all the 'evidence' available, she might well have disappeared into the nearest quantum singularity.

[Mr Gray]

So why mess about opening windows and shutters ?

there are many reasons why windows and shutters may be open...they do not detract from the possibility of abduction...

[stephen25000]

just google it and you will find all about it

I don't need to.


 

[Benice]

9:25 Matt/Russ go through car park facing windows. Matt would definitely notice any windows open. No draughts or curtains moving in 5A

9:40 Jane Tanner goes through car park.

9:45 Russ goes back through the car park.

That street light would produce enough light in the car park. A picture of it at night with the light on should reveal the truth. But when Jane claims to have walked straight past Gerry and Jez without being seen people will believe anything in this case!

The fact that Russell and Matthew walked across the carpark together makes it even more unlikely that they would be looking across at 5A.    In the few seconds it took to cross -  they would be talking to oneanother and looking at oneanother. IMO

I don't have to wonder whether JT was telling the truth.  I know from personal experience that a person can pass within a few feet of someone else and not be seen.

IMO PF you are again allowing hindsight to colour your opinions.    None of the people who crossed the carpark that night had the slightest inkling of what was to happen and so had no reason whatsoever to make a point of noticing anything to do with 5A or any other apartment for that matter. 

[pathfinder73]

The fact that Russell and Matthew walked across the carpark together makes it even more unlikely that they would be looking across at 5A.    In the few seconds it took to cross -  they would be talking to oneanother and looking at oneanother. IMO

I don't have to wonder whether JT was telling the truth.  I know from personal experience that a person can pass within a few feet of someone else and not be seen.

IMO PF you are again allowing hindsight to colour your opinions.    None of the people who crossed the carpark that night had the slightest inkling of what was to happen and so had no reason whatsoever to make a point of noticing anything to do with 5A or any other apartment for that matter.

Matt's window was next to the McCanns so if he looks at his own apartment he can't miss an open window next to it  There is no evidence of an open window at 9:30 when Matt did his check. Not even a draught or moving curtains so I can conclude no whooshing was happening at that time 

[misty]

Matt's window was next to the McCanns so if he looks at his own apartment he can't miss an open window next to it  There is no evidence of an open window at 9:30 when Matt did his check. Not even a draught or moving curtains so I can conclude no whooshing was happening at that time 

He walked into the car park with Russell. They may well have been talking and not paying attention to what was going on around them (rather like Gerry & Jez). Matt then had to walk behind the wall to his own apartment. The bedroom window in his own apartment is set slightly back from the McCanns' window and I doubt an open shutter would have been visible to him from a side angle.

[DCI]

He walked into the car park with Russell. They may well have been talking and not paying attention to what was going on around them (rather like Gerry & Jez). Matt then had to walk behind the wall to his own apartment. The bedroom window in his own apartment is set slightly back from the McCanns' window and I doubt an open shutter would have been visible to him from a side angle.

Did he say he listened at his own window? If he went into his own apartment, he would not even see the McCanns window. The entrance is quite a way up in the block, his main door is also further back from the front.

[sadie]

He walked into the car park with Russell. They may well have been talking and not paying attention to what was going on around them (rather like Gerry & Jez). Matt then had to walk behind the wall to his own apartment. The bedroom window in his own apartment is set slightly back from the McCanns' window and I doubt an open shutter would have been visible to him from a side angle.

The front of the building is curved and he would not see the window as he approached that way.  Additionally he would likely take the shortest route to his front door which means that he would turn into the open hallway from the walled pathway early.

No way would he see the window ... even without taking the chatting with Russell into account.

I am pretty sure tht he did not listen at his window on that occasion [that was the early trip wwhen he listened at hia window and Madeleines window].  I can remember his saying that he checked his apartment then went accross to Russells.     I cannot be reading all the statements yet again so if I am misinforming please tell me.

He would not be able to see around the curve of the building.  He could not see the window, even with it basically in front of him.  Curved brick wall in the way.


Most unlikely that they would have noticed a slightly open white shutter against the white walls cos

1) the lighting was poor.   Sodium lighting aint great at the best of times ... and the head of the closest lamp was positioned right in the head of the trees.

2)  The bottom of the window is below the level of the top of the wall, so the open bit would not be visible from either the public roadway pathway or from the parking lot as they moved diagonally across, if it was only slightly open. 

3)  Additionally the tree heads are not disimilar to the tree heads of weeping willows with leafed twigs hanging down that moved with the wind.  It was quite gusty thta evening.

4)  It was out of their periferal vision as detailed by Heriberto Janosch, our visiting expert.  That is all the way from where the street wall was low enough for them to see over and across the parking lot


TBH, anyone thinking that they would have seen an open window is living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

[stephen25000]

The front of the building is curved and he would not see the window as he approached that way.  Additionally he would likely take the shortest route to his front door which means that he would turn into the open hallway from the walled pathway early.

No way would he see the window ... even without taking the chatting with Russell into account.

I am pretty sure tht he did not listen at his window on that occasion [that was the early trip wwhen he listened at hia window and Madeleines window].  I can remember his saying that he checked his apartment then went accross to Russells.     I cannot be reading all the statements yet again so if I am misinforming please tell me.

He would not be able to see around the curve of the building.  He could not see the window, even with it basically in front of him.  Curved brick wall in the way.


Most unlikely that they would have noticed a slightly open white shutter against the white walls cos

1) the lighting was poor.   Sodium lighting aint great at the best of times ... and the head of the closest lamp was positioned right in the head of the trees.

2)  The bottom of the window is below the level of the top of the wall, so the open bit would not be visible from either the public roadway pathway or from the parking lot as they moved diagonally across, if it was only slightly open. 

3)  Additionally the tree heads are not disimilar to the tree heads of weeping willows with leafed twigs hanging down that moved with the wind.  It was quite gusty thta evening.

4)  It was out of their periferal vision as detailed by Heriberto Janosch, our visiting expert.  That is all the way from where the street wall was low enough for them to see over and across the parking lot


TBH, anyone thinking that they would have seen an open window is living in Cloud Cuckoo land.

and that sadie is called the abduction scenario. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

[G-Unit]

No hard evidence whatsoever that these shutters and the window were ever open at all. One set of fingerprints on the window only; those of one of the people who said it was open. Incomplete prints on the shutters, the position of which suggested the person who left them was inside, not outside. No evidence to suggest anyone or anything entered or exited via the (narrow) window opening.

[sadie]

and that sadie is called the abduction scenario. %£&)**# %£&)**# %£&)**#

Quite Right Stephen.  That is the abduction scenario.



And I have found out enough about what went on afterwards to be virtually 100% sure that there was an abduction .

A planned abduction




Now you must excuse .  Hospital visiting to be done.

Good Afternoon Stephen

[Benice]

No hard evidence whatsoever that these shutters and the window were ever open at all. One set of fingerprints on the window only; those of one of the people who said it was open. Incomplete prints on the shutters, the position of which suggested the person who left them was inside, not outside. No evidence to suggest anyone or anything entered or exited via the (narrow) window opening.

Because no evidence was found doesn't mean it was never there.  The inadequacies of the people collecting forensics - which were commented on by Amaral, may be the reason why evidence could have been overlooked.

As previously mentioned - if the open window/shutters were going to be the McCanns' (preplanned)  evidence that an intruder had entered the apartment - they would have made sure they were kept open for the police to see when they arrived.