Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[Brietta]

But they can tell a friend to cancel a supermarket delivery back home and receive new mobiles instead of demanding to test the twins. Yes it all makes sense NOT!

Hmmm ... and how exactly does that relate to the failure of the PJ to check out their 'suspicion' about the twins condition.  A duty of care alone should have sorted that one out.

[Alfred R Jones]

That as trained clinicians they were aware nothing was untoward?

And...?

[Alice Purjorick]

And...?

You asked a question I answered it. So what's with this "and?" business paleface?

[faithlilly]

The McCanns could not take the children themselves.  That would involve discussing the case with hospital staff and would be breaking the secrecy laws.

But that's exactly what the McCanns did do some 6 months later while their daughter's disappearance was still being actively investigated.

I seem to remember Kate also asked for the twins to be tested by the PJ some months after Madeleine's disappearance but Gerry phoned and cancelled the appointment. Now why would he do that ?

[pathfinder73]

Hmmm ... and how exactly does that relate to the failure of the PJ to check out their 'suspicion' about the twins condition.  A duty of care alone should have sorted that one out.

Are you completely mad said the Buck of Portugal 

The McCanns are put up with David Payne. We want to search the accommodation of the family friends to try to pick up Madeleine's clothes, especially those she was wearing on May 3rd at 5.35pm when she returned from the day centre with her mother and the twins. Evidently, this initiative is not widely supported. The British ambassador meets with the team directing the investigation. The political and the diplomatic seem to want to prevent us from freely doing our work.

- I'm sure this check is necessary.

- The clothes? Are you mad? if I understand you properly, you want to go into the apartment to take clothes to have them analysed?

- Yes. What's the problem? It's a perfectly normal procedure in cases like this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine’s family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children’s clothing… “, states one of the laundry workers.

“At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May”, says Gonçalo Amaral.

[faithlilly]

An overdose,  of what?

Kate McCann did the only thing she was able to do she told the police.    Whether they took any notice of her we don't know,   she was after all completely traumatised and not behaving in a rational manner.   Thinking that Madeleine had merely wandered,   I wonder if they thought Kate was being a bit hysterical.

Who are we to know what the McCann's were able to do on that night.

Fiona says that Kate was worried about the twins,  but then goes on to say 'but they were fine'   no doubt she was reassuring Kate that they were fine.

Isn't it strange how neither Gerry or Kate mention the children showing signs of being sedated in their statements, even their arguido ones ? Further that Fiona Payne, even though she describes Kate's administrations to the twins, not once mentions Kate raising her concerns with the police that night.  Further that Silvia Batista who would have had to translate Kate's concerns doesn't mention it in any of her statements nor indeed do any of the GNR or PJ officers who were there on the night.

[stephen25000]

I do wish you would get off your hobby horse occasionally and see things for what they are.

That I criticise what I see as the incompetence of the initial investigation into Madeleine McCann's case, which can be laid squarely at the door of the co-ordinator is my privilege.

That I think the co-ordinator was entirely out of his depth and should not have been tasked with an investigation his lack of experience doomed to failure, is again my privilege to express an opinion on.

The initial collection of forensic evidence was botched and is noted as such in the co-ordinator's book ... this led to the destruction of trace evidence which might have indicated an intruder.

As always you condone the investigative failures which truly allowed whoever was responsible for vanishing Madeleine McCann off the hook.
Almost as preposterous as the story still doing the rounds among the intellectually challenged of the washing of the curtains etc. etc.

It is not my hobby horse.

Merely observations of what you are.

Investigative failures?….........

Really ?

Madeleine was extensively searched for and not one iota of evidencde of what happened to her has been discovered.

Please keep to the facts, not your clear and undeniable personal bias.

[Lace]

Are you completely mad said the Buck of Portugal 

The McCanns are put up with David Payne. We want to search the accommodation of the family friends to try to pick up Madeleine's clothes, especially those she was wearing on May 3rd at 5.35pm when she returned from the day centre with her mother and the twins. Evidently, this initiative is not widely supported. The British ambassador meets with the team directing the investigation. The political and the diplomatic seem to want to prevent us from freely doing our work.

- I'm sure this check is necessary.

- The clothes? Are you mad? if I understand you properly, you want to go into the apartment to take clothes to have them analysed?

- Yes. What's the problem? It's a perfectly normal procedure in cases like this.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Last Saturday (05/05/2007) I received a bag of clothes brought in by Mark Warner staff, and was told expressly that these belonged to Madeleine’s family – there was adult clothing (male and female) and children’s clothing… “, states one of the laundry workers.

“At the time we had not established exactly which clothes Gerry was wearing on the night of the disappearance nor which clothes were handed in to be washed on 5th May”, says Gonçalo Amaral.

I'm sorry,   Amaral was the person in charge of the investigation,  he should have carried out whatever he thought needed to be done.

This to me sounds more like an excuse as to why he didn't do it.

Kate McCann was asked by the police when they came with dogs on the 4th of May for something of Madeleine's,  they could have given them the clothes Madeleine had been wearing the day before but they wanted the towel and the pink blanket.

He says he regrets not having photographs of what the McCann's and friends had been wearing on the night of the 3rd too.

Amaral gives a lot of excuses,  why he didn't do a reconstruction 'oh because of the tourists'   FGS.

[Eleanor]

Opinions are allowed.  Providing they are On Topic and not Libellous.

[stephen25000]

I'm sorry,   Amaral was the person in charge of the investigation,  he should have carried out whatever he thought needed to be done.

This to me sounds more like an excuse as to why he didn't do it.

Kate McCann was asked by the police when they came with dogs on the 4th of May for something of Madeleine's,  they could have given them the clothes Madeleine had been wearing the day before but they wanted the towel and the pink blanket.

Amaral gives a lot of excuses,  why he didn't do a reconstruction 'oh because of the tourists'   FGS.

Not good enough.

The mccanns and their associates have had every opportunity to take part in a reconstruction.

They failed.

[Lace]

Isn't it strange how neither Gerry or Kate mention the children showing signs of being sedated in their statements, even their arguido ones ? Further that Fiona Payne, even though she describes Kate's administrations to the twins, not once mentions Kate raising her concerns with the police that night.  Further that Silvia Batista who would have had to translate Kate's concerns doesn't mention it in any of her statements nor indeed do any of the GNR or PJ officers who were there on the night.

Maybe because they didn't know if they had been sedated,  why state something if you don't know if it is true?

Kate McCann was no doubt screaming and crying when the police were there,   witnesses say she was in a state of shock.    What she says to the police could have been ignored,   it was only her who was talking about the twins being sedated.

[G-Unit]

An overdose,  of what?

Kate McCann did the only thing she was able to do she told the police.    Whether they took any notice of her we don't know,   she was after all completely traumatised and not behaving in a rational manner.   Thinking that Madeleine had merely wandered,   I wonder if they thought Kate was being a bit hysterical.

Who are we to know what the McCann's were able to do on that night.

Fiona says that Kate was worried about the twins,  but then goes on to say 'but they were fine'   no doubt she was reassuring Kate that they were fine.

Lets have the full quote shall we;

No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.

I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Lace]

Lets have the full quote shall we;

No, and that was the other thing, she kept going into the twins, she kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing, she was very much concerned in checking that they were okay. But they were okay, I mean, they were fine, they didn't, they were asleep, but at the time it did seem weird, I remember thinking, you know, when the Police came they turned the lights on, there was loads of noise, obviously from the moment Kate discovered that Madeleine was gone, the screaming and the shouting and there was a lot of noise and they, they didn't, you know, so much as blink'.

I can't remember who carried up Sean and Amelie. Erm, and we sat on the sofa, me and Kate with the twins asleep on us for a while, erm, and they didn't wake up and, again, that was quite strange, even in the transfer and, and being handled by people that weren't their parents, they didn't, they didn't wake up.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FIONA-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

There you are,  Fiona saying the twins were fine.    Kate was pacing,  crying,  screaming,  hitting things,  worried about the twins in between this.    Do you think the Police took any notice of her saying she thought the twins had been drugged?   Or do you think maybe they thought 'hysterical mother'   after all they thought Kate and Gerry kneeling praying was odd behaviour.

[faithlilly]

There you are,  Fiona saying the twins were fine.    Kate was pacing,  crying,  screaming,  hitting things,  worried about the twins in between this.    Do you think the Police took any notice of her saying she thought the twins had been drugged?   Or do you think maybe they thought 'hysterical mother'   after all they thought Kate and Gerry kneeling praying was odd behaviour.

And the following days ? How many times did the McCanns asked for the twins to be tested in the following days ( not including the fishing expedition with the FL officers ) ?

[Lace]

And the following days ? How many times did the McCanns asked for the twins to be tested in the following days ( not including the fishing expedition with the FL officers ) ?

Who knows?