Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[G-Unit]

It sounds like he was trying to understand gibberish.

Have you read David Payne's interviews? 

[pathfinder73]

Have you read David Payne's interviews? 

This is potential hard evidence as it suggests the truth of the kids bath time is being hidden for some reason.
 
00:44:18 1485 "Okay, and when you finished, I'm just trying to put this in order here, when you actually, when you finished and you went back to the apartment, did you say anything to Gerry about, about the fact that his family were fine' Or''

 Reply "Yeah, err yeah, I haven't mentioned this before, but yes, yeah I'd certainly, when we met up I said oh yeah, you know everything's fine there, you know probably along the lines of you know you've got a bit more of a free pass you know you can carry on for a bit longer, Kate's fine without everyone you know all the children are, are happy, there's no difficulties with bath time or anything so you know, without actually saying all that just conveying to him that you know I don't think you need to err rush back, you've got a free pass for a bit longer.' (DP)

Gerry said, were just absolutely knackered and Kate was getting them bathed and ready for bed. (FP)

That they bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men. (GM)

They arrived at the apartment around 5:40PM, earlier than usual, because Madeleine was tired, their other friends were at the beach and Gerry had an all-male tennis game at 6:00PM. At the flat they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00PM Gerry went to the tennis courts, soon after the children had finished their bath. (KM)

Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the veranda door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne. (KM Sep)

1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example''
 Reply "I can't, no.' (DP)

Madeleine and the twins went to bed at around 7.30. They were in their respective beds. The interviewee and her husband stayed in their apartment to relax until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband. Just after 8.30pm, the interviewee and her husband, after checking on their children, joined the other adults of the group at the "TAPAS" restaurant. (KM May)

At 19H30, the twins were already in their respective cots and MADELEINE in the bed next to the bedroom door. He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were. As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer. (GM 10 May)

After dinner at 17.00, they would bath the children and get them ready for the night and play with them for a few moments in the recreation area near the tennis courts, always supervised by the parents. (GM 4 May)

At 17h00 the OCEAN CLUB nursery care workers conducted MADELEINE and the other children in creche on the 1st floor of the main reception to [the area] next to the TAPAS, under awnings, where they [the children] had dinner under the supervision of the employees and, at times, with their parents. The dinner ended at 17h30 the time at which the employee supervision ended and the parents took over watching the children in the play area until 18h30. Following this they returned to the apartment, the deponent opened the main door with his key and, then, the rear door through which KATE and the children entered.
----- The hygiene done, the children were put to bed about 19h30, it being that the deponent and KATE left for dinner at the TAPAS at 20h30. Between 19h30 and 20h30 they took a bath and drank wine, Portuguese or New Zealand, and a beer. (GM 10 May)

[pegasus]

The person was planning to climb in but didn't because he saw/heard someone inside the room go out that door.
It's the only possible scenario which fits the hard evidence of the window and shutter and bedroom door and solves the riddle of why the person suddenly changed mind about climbing in. So Mr Amaral was right about who pulled that bedroom door open and went into another room IMO..

[Brietta]

The person was planning to climb in but didn't because he saw/heard someone inside the room go out that door.
It's the only possible scenario which fits the hard evidence of the window and shutter and bedroom door and solves the riddle of why the person suddenly changed mind about climbing in. So Mr Amaral was right about who pulled that bedroom door open and went into another room IMO..

Certainly is a reasonable explanation of the open window ... but it didn't have to be Madeleine who was seen ... the abductor could already have been in the apartment having gained entry via the front door with a key or through the patio door.

[pegasus]

Not unless there's some kind of communication system - you and Fred are in contact by phone and you admit it; or a third party informs Fred; or Fred has CCTV remote access to his laundry basket.

No tricks, he cannot see his green shirt from the restaurant.
Moving from that fiction case, imagine a clothing item is alerted, but the person who owns it says it was not being worn on that evening and truthfully knows nothing that could cause the indication.
The crimescene photos are the hard evidence. They prove that there were large numbers of clothing not being worn but laying in apartment. So the witness is right, and this interpretation by the investigation, of an alert, was incorrect.

[pegasus]

Certainly is a reasonable explanation of the open window ... but it didn't have to be Madeleine who was seen ... the abductor could already have been in the apartment having gained entry via the front door with a key or through the patio door.

KM's account says that that someone had opened the shutter and window and I believe it.

[pathfinder73]

KM's account says that that someone had opened the shutter and window and I believe it.

Why do you believe it? Like you believe a door moved 3 times. Who could move a door 3 times? Matt's unforeseen check ruined everything.

[misty]

No tricks, he cannot see his green shirt from the restaurant.
Moving from that fiction case, imagine a clothing item is alerted, but the person who owns it says it was not being worn on that evening and truthfully knows nothing that could cause the indication.
The crimescene photos are the hard evidence. They prove that there were large numbers of clothing not being worn but laying in apartment. So the witness is right, and this interpretation by the investigation, of an alert, was incorrect.

The crime scene photos only reflect the state of the apartment at 2-3am, when they were taken. We do not know what was where at 10pm.
Can you see any sports clothing laying around?

[Brietta]

KM's account says that that someone had opened the shutter and window and I believe it.

 ... and so do I ... however I totally reject Mr Amaral's theory ... I firmly believe there was a stranger in that apartment and like you I don't think entry was made via the window, although there is absolutely nothing to say it wasn't.

[pegasus]

... and so do I ... however I totally reject Mr Amaral's theory ... I firmly believe there was a stranger in that apartment and like you I don't think entry was made via the window, although there is absolutely nothing to say it wasn't.

You could turn my theory into an abduction from a hiding place in another room.
But not likley, because any burglar would flee asa he saw someone running out the room, he would not climb in.

[ShiningInLuz]

... and so do I ... however I totally reject Mr Amaral's theory ... I firmly believe there was a stranger in that apartment and like you I don't think entry was made via the window, although there is absolutely nothing to say it wasn't.

Entry via the window.

1.  You have to know the shutter can be pushed up from the outside, something which is extremely unusual, but obviously in this case it worked.

2. You have to be able to get through double-glazed windows with not sign of them being forced.  The only way I can work this is the cleaner was deliberately leaving windows unlocked so a collaborator thief could burgle.  I have no interest in an opportunity thief came along, tried the shutter perchance, found that Kate had left the window open, then decided to snatch Madeleine.  I rate alien abduction as more probable.

Assuming the window was not an entry point, we can move on to more interesting questions.

[pegasus]

Entry via the window.

1.  You have to know the shutter can be pushed up from the outside, something which is extremely unusual, but obviously in this case it worked.

2. You have to be able to get through double-glazed windows with not sign of them being forced.  The only way I can work this is the cleaner was deliberately leaving windows unlocked so a collaborator thief could burgle.  I have no interest in an opportunity thief came along, tried the shutter perchance, found that Kate had left the window open, then decided to snatch Madeleine.  I rate alien abduction as more probable.

Assuming the window was not an entry point, we can move on to more interesting questions.

1. There is evidence that burglars did know that this design shutter can be raised a little from outside. See photo of the shutter of the window of 5G upstairs. It is the same design and IMO same method was used there. Same method probably at 5L. And 5J by PJ. All had same design shutters and windows as 5A. 

2. The burglar raises the shutter a little, and tries the window. It takes a few seconds. If window is locked he goes away. Sometimes people don't bother checking if window is locked, because they get false sense of security from shutters, see rogs.

[Brietta]

You could turn my theory into an abduction from a hiding place in another room.
But not likley, because any burglar would flee asa he saw someone running out the room, he would not climb in.

No-one knows what a burglar may be capable of.  Drugs dependency has been mentioned in the tabloids in relation to other burglaries and at the end of the day anything with a value will be vulnerable either to pay a drug debt or ensure a fix.

[Carana]

Entry via the window.

1.  You have to know the shutter can be pushed up from the outside, something which is extremely unusual, but obviously in this case it worked.

2. You have to be able to get through double-glazed windows with not sign of them being forced.  The only way I can work this is the cleaner was deliberately leaving windows unlocked so a collaborator thief could burgle.  I have no interest in an opportunity thief came along, tried the shutter perchance, found that Kate had left the window open, then decided to snatch Madeleine.  I rate alien abduction as more probable.

Assuming the window was not an entry point, we can move on to more interesting questions.

If ever the window was left unlocked, a cleaner deliberately leaving the window unlocked for an accomplice would seem to be a possibility, but it could also be that in the general rush to clean the apartment for the next guests, ensuring that the window was actually locked simply wasn't on the checklist of reminders.

[pegasus]

If ever the window was left unlocked, a cleaner deliberately leaving the window unlocked for an accomplice would seem to be a possibility, but it could also be that in the general rush to clean the apartment for the next guests, ensuring that the window was actually locked simply wasn't on the checklist of reminders.

There is direct evidence in the rogs that some other members of this group of tourists thought there was no need to check whether or not windows were locked, because they thought closed shutters alone provided complete security. The cleaners would be under the same illusion as the doctors, because neither the doctors or the cleaners are burglars.