Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[pegasus]

the veracity of Kate's statement.

Yes agreed

[pegasus]

There is hard evidence there was a pile of clothes on a cupboard shelf.

[sadie]

Kate is adamant that there was 'whooooshing' are you calling her a liar?


"I wonder if this conundrum is setting us up for "whilst Kate was at the table, Gerry was at the apartment doing nasty things" .... or the reverse.  Or Matt etc doing nasty things?"

Well, that is what the McCanns are telling us... something nasty happened to Maddie in that apartment... and for her to disappear allegedly from that apartment is worth looking at.

Angelo was on about a window and door, both on the north side of 5a and almost adjacent,  causing a draught.

Usually a draught is caused by openings on opposite sides or adjacent sides,  BUT NOT on the same side.


Was one of the side lounge windows open?
or
Did someone slip out of the Mccanns bedroom patio door creating a draught?
or
Was the main patio door, where Kate had entered, not quite closed?

[pegasus]

The draught through the bedroom was in the window and out the bedroom door, as KM testified
It's impossible for a north to south draught to open the bedroom door.
Therefore the only mobile person in the apartment (a child) opened the door.
Amazing that so many detectives have missed this.
Therefore if there was an abduction (or anything else), it happened in a different room (the the lounge, or the other bedroom, or balcony).
Why does every abduction theory blindly follow the mantra - never never never consider other rooms?

[pegasus]

There is hard evidence there was a pile of clothes on a cupboard shelf.

Is this significant?

[misty]

The draught through the bedroom was in the window and out the bedroom door, as KM testified
It's impossible for a north to south draught to open the bedroom door.
Therefore the only mobile person in the apartment (a child) opened the door.
Amazing that so many detectives have missed this.
Therefore if there was an abduction (or anything else), it happened in a different room (the the lounge, or the other bedroom, or balcony).
Why does every abduction theory blindly follow the mantra - never never never consider other rooms?

The sheets were too neat, Pegasus. Any child leaving their bed in a panic would fling the covers back to free their legs. If the crime scene photos are a true reflection of the state of the bed when it was discovered then Madeleine did not leave her bed in a hurry.

[sadie]

The draught through the bedroom was in the window and out the bedroom door, as KM testified
It's impossible for a north to south draught to open the bedroom door.
Therefore the only mobile person in the apartment (a child) opened the door.
Amazing that so many detectives have missed this.
Therefore if there was an abduction (or anything else), it happened in a different room (the the lounge, or the other bedroom, or balcony).
Why does every abduction theory blindly follow the mantra - never never never consider other rooms?

Someone came in through the front door Pegasus ... and that is why the bedroom door was ajar

[pegasus]

The sheets were too neat, Pegasus.

Thanks, I've considered that misty, but my opinion is the witness is telling the truth.
I think based on experience that if a tired child goes to bed it is possible that the bed may remain fairly neat, even if a parent and other children has sat on it, I did look at all the details, and that's my opinion.
The hard evidence fits that this witness is telling the truth, everything including the book fits that IMO.

[misty]

Thanks, I've considered that misty, but my opinion is the witness is telling the truth.
I think based on experience that if a tired child goes to bed it is possible that the bed may remain fairly neat, even if a parent and other children has sat on it, I did look at all the details, and that's my opinion.
The hard evidence fits that this witness is telling the truth, everything including the book fits that IMO.

I have just edited my post to reflect further reasoning.
The bedroom door would also have been wide open imo if Madeleine had exited in a panic.
What about the "bump" noise that MO heard coming from the bedroom during the 9.30 check & the child safety gate possibly being open?

[pegasus]

I have just edited my post to reflect further reasoning.
The bedroom door would also have been wide open imo if Madeleine had exited in a panic.
What about the "bump" noise that MO heard coming from the bedroom during the 9.30 check & the child safety gate possibly being open?

I agree the neatness of the bed is an issue, but after considering many things I am sure the witness account is honest. The  2nd line of your current post is on the ball JIMO. I don't know anything about a bump noise, source would be appreciated.

[misty]

I agree the neatness of the bed is an issue, but after considering many things I am sure the witness account is honest. The  2nd line of your current post is on the ball JIMO. I don't know anything about a bump noise, source would be appreciated.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm
Page 886
Portimao Criminal Investigation Department
201/07.OGALGS
O INSPECTOR
M.P.
ATTACHED
On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.
Portimao, 10 May 2007
INSPECTOR
M.P.

*snip*
2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.
2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?
2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell

             ---------------------------------------------------------------------

[pegasus]

Thankyou Misty, your link has the noise and the gate, both I had not known before, thankyou.

[misty]

Thankyou Misty, your link has the noise and the gate, both I had not known before, thankyou.

I didn't either, particularly as neither issue is mentioned in any of MO's statements online. I stumbled across it when looking for info regarding the position of the patio curtain during the Thursday checks.

[pegasus]

I didn't either, particularly as neither issue is mentioned in any of MO's statements online. I stumbled across it when looking for info regarding the position of the patio curtain during the Thursday checks.

Good stumbling misty. IMO this might be a summary of statements taken by private company CR then passed to PJ via UK police liaison officer  ?

[misty]

Good stumbling misty. IMO this might be a summary of statements taken by private company CR then passed to PJ via UK police liaison officer  ?

I would have thought the summary was prepared by one of the Leicestershire liaison officers. It was delivered before the 2nd round of statements, so I wonder why MO apparently omitted those 2 potentially vital pieces of information?
An open safety gate does not fit in with any staged abduction.