Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 433937 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1005 on: June 01, 2015, 03:31:20 AM »
The upper gate is a child-gate.
If it was open at 9.30, then either the 910 checker accidentally left it open, or a child opened it later.
But then the lounge sliding door would be open? No witness says that.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 03:34:25 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1006 on: June 01, 2015, 07:38:01 AM »
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm
Page 886
Portimao Criminal Investigation Department
201/07.OGALGS
O INSPECTOR
M.P.
ATTACHED
On this date, I attached to these official papers 3 computer printed pages, relating to the description of the events, that have been collectively prepared by the nine people of the group in question, that was delivered to this Police Officer by the British Liaison Official, before the start of re-questioning of those same people.
Portimao, 10 May 2007
INSPECTOR
M.P.

*snip*
2125: After starters, MO and RJO go back to the apartments via the car park entrance to check all flats. They go first to 5D where RJO's daughter Evie is heard crying. RJO enters flat, whilst MO checks inside 5B, and then returns to 5D.
2130: RJO remains in 5D as daughter has vomited. MO goes to check on 5A via the patio gate entrance. The outside gate is probably shut, but the child gate on the stairs up to the patio is possibly open. The patio door is closed but unlocked.
MO enters flat, hears a sound in the children's bedroom that is probably one of the twins rolling over in their cot. He does not enter the bedroom but can see through a now quite open door (greater than 45 degrees) into the room.
He sees the two twins in their cot, but does not check Madeleine formally as no sounds and twins asleep. He recalls the room did seem lighter than expected, perhaps suggesting the shutter had been raised or the curtains opened?

2135: MO returns to restaurant table, by which time main courses are arriving or being eaten. MO tells JT that Evie unwell

             ---------------------------------------------------------------------

It was all completely quiet.

I was there to check, erm, no, no funny sort of smells, no sort of funny draughts, no sort of funny sort of noises, no, erm, nothing that I can think of for that. I mean, it was a complete just a shock out of the blue when, you know, I'd been in and then suddenly somebody's saying Madeleine's missing, there was nothing that made me think, oh'.

4078 'But you didn't touch the door''
Reply 'No'
.
4078 'You didn't need to because it was already open''

Reply 'It was already open. I mean, it must have been, it must have been sort of at that sort of angle, so it's just over forty-five degrees'.

The curtains were shut, they were closed, they weren't sort of blowing about, because I'm sure I'd have noticed if there was sort of movement like that. But the room seemed light, and we spent a lot of time talking about this, whether it could be light coming in from the street outside, but there was a light behind us in the room and for some reason I thought, I got the impression of light coming through the doorway from behind me, which his why I said that I thought perhaps the moon was out, erm, but there as no sort of, you know, it's a questions of whether, there was no sort of slats of light coming through the back that particularly caught my eye. So I didn't specifically see the shutters and I couldn't say that they were definitely open, but certainly the curtains were shut and everything was quiet'.(MO)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1007 on: June 02, 2015, 02:20:24 AM »
IMO this http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm information was obtained from interviews of group by company CR and then handed to LP liaison officer who handed to PJ. These CR interviews are mentioned in KM book IIRC? It is accurate information IMO. So now we have a sound from the bedroom.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1008 on: June 02, 2015, 07:37:44 AM »
IMO this http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm information was obtained from interviews of group by company CR and then handed to LP liaison officer who handed to PJ. These CR interviews are mentioned in KM book IIRC? It is accurate information IMO. So now we have a sound from the bedroom.

By Control Risks who said the key was on the counter then we have Matt's own statement which is the true source!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 08:22:48 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1009 on: June 02, 2015, 02:33:54 PM »
By Control Risks who said the key was on the counter then we have Matt's own statement which is the true source!
Both are true sources.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1010 on: June 02, 2015, 04:09:16 PM »
Both are true sources.

They are working for and being paid by the McCanns.

A source close to the couple's legal team confirmed that CRG had been working with the family since May but refused to discuss how the company was being paid.

There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)

A private investigator in charge of the case would likely "start with the parents, Mr. and Mrs. McCann," said Cliff Knuckey, a former detective inspector with Scotland Yard and managing director of the private investigations firm Risc Management.

They would work outward from there, Knuckey said, "to the circle of relatives, and the circle of friends that were there in Praia de Luz. Just to help piece together a profile."

Roy Ramm, a former commander of specialist operations at New Scotland Yard and chairman of the British private security firm Commercial Security International, also said private detectives would start with those closest to the case.

"Basically what they'll do is re-interview all the witnesses, going back over it in a methodical way," Ramm told ABC News. "They'll try to get to a point where they either do a physical or virtual reconstruction of what happened and literally start again."
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1011 on: June 02, 2015, 04:37:04 PM »
They are working for and being paid by the McCanns.

A source close to the couple's legal team confirmed that CRG had been working with the family since May but refused to discuss how the company was being paid.

There is a report from Control Risks, the first private detective agency which was brought to the case [by the McCanns] in the very first days, where they state, after speaking with Gerald McCann and other witnesses in that group [Tapas 9], that the key that Mr. Gerald McCann alleges to have used had in fact been left in the kitchen, in the kitchen’s counter. Right away, the lies started. (Gonçalo Amaral)

A private investigator in charge of the case would likely "start with the parents, Mr. and Mrs. McCann," said Cliff Knuckey, a former detective inspector with Scotland Yard and managing director of the private investigations firm Risc Management.

They would work outward from there, Knuckey said, "to the circle of relatives, and the circle of friends that were there in Praia de Luz. Just to help piece together a profile."

Roy Ramm, a former commander of specialist operations at New Scotland Yard and chairman of the British private security firm Commercial Security International, also said private detectives would start with those closest to the case.

"Basically what they'll do is re-interview all the witnesses, going back over it in a methodical way," Ramm told ABC News. "They'll try to get to a point where they either do a physical or virtual reconstruction of what happened and literally start again."

Ignoring for a moment the fact that Operation Grange used files from the McCann PIs as part of the review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance you have just given a perfect example (not only of prejudice) of exactly why official law enforcement agencies have to  find and investigate evidence in a criminal case.

In that way the chain of evidence is or should be clear and unable to be challenged as you have question the involvement of the McCann detectives and the evidence they have produced.

That there has been so much resistance to the official investigation now taking place gives me leave to wonder the motivation for it ... I can only surmise there are those who do not want Madeleine found whatever the evidence.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline jassi

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1012 on: June 02, 2015, 04:42:05 PM »
Ignoring for a moment the fact that Operation Grange used files from the McCann PIs as part of the review into Madeleine McCann's disappearance you have just given a perfect example (not only of prejudice) of exactly why official law enforcement agencies have to  find and investigate evidence in a criminal case.

In that way the chain of evidence is or should be clear and unable to be challenged as you have question the involvement of the McCann detectives and the evidence they have produced.

That there has been so much resistance to the official investigation now taking place gives me leave to wonder the motivation for it ... I can only surmise there are those who do not want Madeleine found whatever the evidence.

Where, in your opinion, is all this resistance coming from?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1013 on: June 02, 2015, 11:23:57 PM »
Where, in your opinion, is all this resistance coming from?
Well you didn't ask me, but ...

Imo, you guys are being whipped up by some organisation that doesn't want Madeleine found.



Some are pulling the strings and some are having them pulled .... even on here.

You will have to work it out yourself.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1014 on: June 07, 2015, 11:09:50 AM »
Well you didn't ask me, but ...

Imo, you guys are being whipped up by some organisation that doesn't want Madeleine found.



Some are pulling the strings and some are having them pulled .... even on here.

You will have to work it out yourself.

Do the parents belong to this organisation?

I do agree the parents are pulling strings- and using PR companies to do their service.

Why would a woman who noticed her daughter missing fom her bed, window and shutters open, run and shout our child has been abducted please help and call the police( she didn't say call the police did she? or anyone ...then claim she looked for her.. if Maddie was abducted why look for her in cupboards, under beds,etc? why call out her name as if the 'abductor' would let her shout mummie Im over here? Oh get real!
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 11:17:27 AM by Eleanor »
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline G-Unit

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1015 on: June 07, 2015, 04:25:12 PM »
Do the parents belong to this organisation?

I do agree the parents are pulling strings- and using PR companies to do their service.

Why would a woman who noticed her daughter missing fom her bed, window and shutters open, run and shout our child has been abducted please help and call the police( she didn't say call the police did she? or anyone ...then claim she looked for her.. if Maddie was abducted why look for her in cupboards, under beds,etc? why call out her name as if the 'abductor' would let her shout mummie Im over here? Oh get real!

Why, also, did Jane Tanner not speak out with urgency? Why didn't she tell the men to check in the direction she saw the man with the child heading? She said she stayed silent so as not to alarm the parents, but they already thought it was an abduction. Had she spoken at least they would have had a direction to search in.
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Offline Carana

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1016 on: June 07, 2015, 05:03:31 PM »
Do the parents belong to this organisation?

I do agree the parents are pulling strings- and using PR companies to do their service.

Why would a woman who noticed her daughter missing fom her bed, window and shutters open, run and shout our child has been abducted please help and call the police( she didn't say call the police did she? or anyone ...then claim she looked for her.. if Maddie was abducted why look for her in cupboards, under beds,etc? why call out her name as if the 'abductor' would let her shout mummie Im over here? Oh get real!

Even if your gut feeling is that your child has been abducted, I don't see why that would stop you from double-checking that your worst fear may in fact not be the correct assumption.

Offline sadie

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1017 on: June 08, 2015, 05:28:59 PM »
Do the parents belong to this organisation?
I do agree the parents are pulling strings- and using PR companies to do their service.

Why would a woman who noticed her daughter missing fom her bed, window and shutters open, run and shout our child has been abducted please help and call the police( she didn't say call the police did she? or anyone ...then claim she looked for her.. if Maddie was abducted why look for her in cupboards, under beds,etc? why call out her name as if the 'abductor' would let her shout mummie Im over here? Oh get real!

Belong to YOUR Organisations?   Of course they dont.
It was quite clear that I was talking about YOUR side, but you had to change its meaning, for some reason?.  Why?
Any reasonable person would realise that Kates first re-action would be to look in cupboards, under beds etc

And the sordid truth would dawn on her, that she had been abducted.  It would be a natural reaction to shout out her name.

Wouldn't you have bothered?

Neither to search for Madeleine in those first precious minutes, nor to call out to her?

Hmmm  %56&

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1018 on: June 08, 2015, 06:06:22 PM »
Belong to YOUR Organisations?   Of course they dont.
It was quite clear that I was talking about YOUR side, but you had to change its meaning, for some reason?.  Why?
Any reasonable person would realise that Kates first re-action would be to look in cupboards, under beds etc

And the sordid truth would dawn on her, that she had been abducted.  It would be a natural reaction to shout out her name.

Wouldn't you have bothered?

Neither to search for Madeleine in those first precious minutes, nor to call out to her?

Hmmm  %56&

Since you won't tell us what this organisation is, how are we supposed to know whose side they are on?
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Alice Purjorick

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1019 on: June 08, 2015, 06:24:21 PM »
Since you won't tell us what this organisation is, how are we supposed to know whose side they are on?

Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

Well there would appear to be no hard evidence of this organisation.
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey