Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[misty]

Not very interesting if you read the rogs. Leaving it unlocked at night is interesting.

I mean if we were just sort of all popping out and just quickly to the pool, we'd go out the patio doors and just leave them unlocked, erm cos you couldn't lock them from the outside. (RO)

It is interesting, in that it demonstrates how safe they felt (or how careless they were) even during the daytime, when gardening staff were working nearby.

[pegasus]

Not very interesting if you read the rogs. Leaving it unlocked at night is interesting.

I mean if we were just sort of all popping out and just quickly to the pool, we'd go out the patio doors and just leave them unlocked, erm cos you couldn't lock them from the outside. (RO)

Thanks pathfinder and at another apartment in daytime the frontdoor key was left under the doormat. But back to the topic the hard evidence like fingerprints on window and hairs on floor. It will be useful to know what time on Wednesday the apartment was cleaned because this involved cleaning the floor and maybe cleaning the inside only of the window?

[Carana]

Thanks Carana. "There is a preference to clean those apartments with children guests in the morning" So when we examine the hard evidence of the prints, we can say the apartment was cleaned on Wednesday probably at about 9AM? and the family went out through the balcony door. What time did the kidsclubs start? But we don't know whether this included cleaning the inside of the window.

Amaral stated that they had been cleaned the day before, but that's not specified in the cleaning lady's statement. Nor does it seem likely.

So I've no idea what facts he was basing that on.

[Anna]

I do believe...IIRC, that the cleaner said that she cleaned the apartments where there were children in the morning and others in the afternoon, in the interview link provided by Pegasus.

If the cleaner was present she would need to clean the balcony, so no point in asking her to lock it when they exited via the patio doors.
It does however make me wonder how many other knew that they used the patio doors to leave the apartment, knowing that they cannot be locked from outside?

[pathfinder73]

It is interesting, in that it demonstrates how safe they felt (or how careless they were) even during the daytime, when gardening staff were working nearby.

The kids were at the creche. The kids were inside alone at night. Big difference.

[Carana]

I do believe...IIRC, that the cleaner said that she cleaned the apartments where there were children in the morning and others in the afternoon, in the interview link provided by Pegasus.

If the cleaner was present she would need to clean the balcony, so no point in asking her to lock it when they exited via the patio doors.
It does however make me wonder how many other knew that they used the patio doors to leave the apartment, knowing that they cannot be locked from outside?

Hello, Anna.

It was the "governess" (head of cleaning) who stated that that was the preference - see above.

But yes, in context, the situation seems quite ordinary. A cleaning lady is in there, and the McCanns go out via the patio door rather than taking the long way round. There doesn't appear to have any particular reason to go out via the front door.

[misty]

The kids were at the creche. The kids were inside alone at night. Big difference.

Does anybody seriously think that the cleaner took time out to clean all the windows, or washed all the floors each time she cleaned? I seriously doubt her duties extended much further than changing the towels, bed linen, cleaning the bathroom & wiping down some surfaces. There were a lot of apartments to clean - and not that many cleaners.
Wonder who cleaned the exterior of the windows at OC?

[misty]

The kids were at the creche. The kids were inside alone at night. Big difference.

Passports, phones, cameras, cash.
 You don't expect anyone to nick your children.

[Anna]

Oops! We appear to be sliding off topic. Please try and stay with it. Thanks

[pegasus]

Amaral stated that they had been cleaned the day before, but that's not specified in the cleaning lady's statement. Nor does it seem likely.
So I've no idea what facts he was basing that on.

"When I went there on Wednesday , they were there. It was they who opened the door for me"
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/front-line-after-madie-video-reportage.html
(Relevant to thread because to interpret hard evidence (prints, hairs, etc) we need to know when the apartment was cleaned)

[Anna]

"When I went there on Wednesday , they were there. It was they who opened the door for me"
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/front-line-after-madie-video-reportage.html
(Relevant to thread because to interpret hard evidence (prints, hairs, etc) we need to know when the apartment was cleaned)

Agreed.

[Carana]

"When I went there on Wednesday , they were there. It was they who opened the door for me"
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/front-line-after-madie-video-reportage.html
(Relevant to thread because to interpret hard evidence (prints, hairs, etc) we need to know when the apartment was cleaned)

The cleaning lady did indeed say she'd been there, but what did she clean during that time? How long did she spend there? There's no mention of cleaning the kids' bedroom window (there was probably no need to).

More interestingly (IMO), did she sweep / wash the floor? Not all of the hairs found corresponded to the haplotype of anyone known to have been in there that week (although a couple near the bed by the window in the kids' bedroom were of the same haplotype as the mother and child of a previous occupant).

[pegasus]

The cleaning lady did indeed say she'd been there, but what did she clean during that time? How long did she spend there? There's no mention of cleaning the kids' bedroom window (there was probably no need to).

More interestingly (IMO), did she sweep / wash the floor? Not all of the hairs found corresponded to the haplotype of anyone known to have been in there that week (although a couple near the bed by the window in the kids' bedroom were of the same haplotype as the mother and child of a previous occupant).

IMO on Wednesday the cleaner cleaned at least the floor of the big traffic room which is the living-dining-kitchen-hall (all one room) because IMO any good cleaner would do at least that. BTW I don't know about insides of windows, but outsides of some windows in this block were cleaned by a different person but I don't know if that includes 5A. (Edited)

[G-Unit]

"When I went there on Wednesday , they were there. It was they who opened the door for me"
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/front-line-after-madie-video-reportage.html
(Relevant to thread because to interpret hard evidence (prints, hairs, etc) we need to know when the apartment was cleaned)

Well, we know it was cleaned now. We also know about the cots;

MARK WARNER entered the apartment and proceeded to place two children's beds.

the couple was sleeping in the room located opposite the entrance, where she confirmed the presence of a child's bed (crib). The room gives onto an outdoor garden by means of a terrace, as it is on the ground floor,. In the room next to the entrance to the apartment there was a bed placed next to the wall (where she supposed the missing child slept), and also the second child's bed (crib). All these beds were untidy at the time, meaning that they had been used. She also declares that in the room next to the entrance was another bed that had not been used.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_CLEANER.htm

Kate also says there were two cots;

The apartment has two beds in one bedroom, and two in another where there are also two cots on loan from the Ocean Club.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Later she decides there were originally three cots. I wonder why?

She also says that when she arrived there weren't two but three cribs in the same place, one was lent to the Payne family.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN_ARGUIDO.htm

[Anna]

Please adhere to the topic and refrain from disrupting the thread. Thank you.