Author Topic: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?  (Read 433363 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1200 on: June 16, 2015, 05:20:47 PM »
The hard evidence about the left top cupboard is that it exists & has doors which hide what if anything is in it (PJ photo).
Anything more, like guessing that anyone searched in it that night, or guessing it was empty, or guessing it had blankets or pillows in, is conjectures and assumptions.

I did no mention the contents of that particular cupboard. I have no idea what if anything was in it.
If like me, you have stayed in a Hotels/apartments, that is where extra pillows and blankets are likely to be found. Top of a wardrobe or in cupboards above.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1201 on: June 16, 2015, 05:30:42 PM »
Hard evidence (PJ photo taken that very night)
The large pile of unfolded clothes on the first shelf up above the floor of the left cupboard includes
1. at least one grey item
2. at least one white item
3. at least one red item

Because there is no time and date stamp on the photographs it is impossible to say what the sequence of events was.

For example, when was the pen and A4 pad on the dining table ... before or after the image showing it wasn't there?
Where and what is the blue bag?  Now you see it now you don't. (well spotted, Misty)

Even the furniture positions vary ... look at the dining chair.

We know that the crime scene was compromised ... but these photographs seem to be evidence that it continued to be compromised between one shot and another.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1202 on: June 16, 2015, 05:37:41 PM »
If you have something to say, I for one would prefer you to say it ... quite simply, I seldom watch any of the videos you post particularly when one is expected to sit through forty five minutes of drivel trying to second guess your point since you seldom bother with indexing.

I have my own opinion of these videos and if at one time the forum disallowed them, I think it might be an idea to have a look at their reintroduction, I see no value in them at all apart from bias and disinformation.

Nobody is forcing you to watch it and you don't have to respond to my post. Signed police statements can be used as evidence. Discrepancies and inconsistencies in stories are investigated.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1203 on: June 16, 2015, 05:39:06 PM »
Because there is no time and date stamp on the photographs it is impossible to say what the sequence of events was.

For example, when was the pen and A4 pad on the dining table ... before or after the image showing it wasn't there?
Where and what is the blue bag?  Now you see it now you don't. (well spotted, Misty)

Even the furniture positions vary ... look at the dining chair.

We know that the crime scene was compromised ... but these photographs seem to be evidence that it continued to be compromised between one shot and another.

Look very carefully at the clothes draped over the dining chair............enlarge & compare.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1204 on: June 16, 2015, 05:41:31 PM »
Hard evidence = PJ photo, taken that night, of the left cupboard in the adult bedroom.
On the floor of the cupboard is nothing visible.
On the first shelf up is a large jumbled pile of many unfolded clothes, of many colours.
On the second shelf up is a large bag/case.
On the third shelf up is nothing visible.
On the fourth shelf up is a small item.
Above that, the top doors are closed, we can not see in there.

The second main luggage bag they took to PDL is not shown in crime scene photos. And we have a shelf full of clothes where Eddie alerted.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1205 on: June 16, 2015, 05:42:52 PM »
Because there is no time and date stamp on the photographs it is impossible to say what the sequence of events was.

For example, when was the pen and A4 pad on the dining table ... before or after the image showing it wasn't there?
Where and what is the blue bag?  Now you see it now you don't. (well spotted, Misty)

Even the furniture positions vary ... look at the dining chair.

We know that the crime scene was compromised ... but these photographs seem to be evidence that it continued to be compromised between one shot and another.
In the jumbled pile of many clothes in the left cupboard that night there was included a red item, and a white item, and a grey item, all in the same photo, all photographed in the same fraction of a second, hard evidence
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:50:13 PM by pegasus »

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1206 on: June 16, 2015, 05:48:16 PM »
Nobody is forcing you to watch it and you don't have to respond to my post. Signed police statements can be used as evidence. Discrepancies and inconsistencies in stories are investigated.

Precisely ... but what a boring forum it would be if we all posted a video instead of debating.  Sometimes videos can make an interesting point, but as a rule of thumb ... nothing adulterated by Lizzie Taylor or other propagandists does ... an index point (because usually the pertinent section is only about a minute or two in length).

I'm quite content with leaving the police to interpret so called discrepancies and inconsistencies ... they have the expertise and all the information to hand to enable them to reach valid conclusions.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1207 on: June 16, 2015, 05:49:41 PM »
Because there is no time and date stamp on the photographs it is impossible to say what the sequence of events was.

For example, when was the pen and A4 pad on the dining table ... before or after the image showing it wasn't there?
Where and what is the blue bag?  Now you see it now you don't. (well spotted, Misty)

Even the furniture positions vary ... look at the dining chair.

We know that the crime scene was compromised ... but these photographs seem to be evidence that it continued to be compromised between one shot and another.

First photos were taken on early morning on 4 May.

Second set of photos:

On 4 May 2007, at 15:30, a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory, comprising the undersigned, went, at the request of DIC PJ Portimao, to a dwelling situated at Apartment 5A, of Block A of the tourist accommodation building, "Ocean Club" - Praia da Luz, Lagos, in order to perform a specialist examination of the location.There follow photograph displays of the exterior of the apartment to be examined as well as detail of the entrance thereto.



Beige item now missing from bed and cupboards empty. Gerry moved clothes out to Payne's apartment.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline DCI

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Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1208 on: June 16, 2015, 05:55:08 PM »
Look very carefully at the clothes draped over the dining chair............enlarge & compare.

Well spotted Misty. The other pic has that fawn top just thrown over the chair. Can't quite make out if it is actually the same item, either




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Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1209 on: June 16, 2015, 05:59:54 PM »
Look very carefully at the clothes draped over the dining chair............enlarge & compare.

I'm looking at what I think is the blue bag placed on the floor at the standard lamp in photo 13.

In photo 12 I'm looking at Sean's tshirt lying on the floor beside the dining chair.

In photo 5/6 the striped garment is no longer there.

OK  ... what else have I missed?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1210 on: June 16, 2015, 06:05:45 PM »
In the jumbled pile of many clothes in the left cupboard that night there was included a red item, and a white item, and a grey item, all in the same photo, all photographed in the same fraction of a second, hard evidence

You and Misty are leaving me behind on this pegasus'

Pathfinder has posted crime scene photographs showing the cupboard when it has been cleared.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1211 on: June 16, 2015, 06:18:36 PM »
The sofa had to be away from the wall at some point for the curtain to be in that position.



Hmmm  &%+((£

Here is another of those vivid, now cherished memories: Madeleine, in her Eeyore pyjamas, sitting on my lap and cuddling in – something of which she was especially fond when she was tired. We were on one of the two blue sofas, the one facing the patio doors, with Sean and Amelie to our right. I read them a Mog story by Judith Kerr. Auntie Ail – my cousin Aileen – and Uncle Andy had bought this for Madeleine on her third birthday and it remained one of her favourites. She asked if she could wear my engagement ring, which she often liked to do. I took it off and she put it on her middle finger for a few minutes. Gerry arrived back promptly at 7pm, sat down on the other couch and we all chatted for a while. Then we shepherded our three weary little ones through to the bathroom to brush their teeth and for Madeleine to do her bedtime ‘wee-wee’.
I took them all into their bedroom. Madeleine got into her bed and then Amelie, Sean and I settled ourselves on top of it, with our backs against the wall, for our final story, If you’re happy and you know it!, another present to Madeleine, this one from Great-Auntie Janet and Great-Uncle Brian. If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands! says the monkey. Stamp your feet! says the elephant.
If you’re happy and you know it . . . It seemed so fitting at the time. Madeleine was obviously exhausted and her head sank down on her pillow intermittently, although she did join in with the babbled responses of her little brother and sister. It’s strange the things you remember. Two pages at the end of the book are divided up into squares, most of them containing one of the animals featured earlier. Madeleine started to count these. She included a couple of the blank squares and I was about to point this out to her when I checked myself, realizing that she was counting the squares regardless of whether or not there was an animal inside. What did it matter, anyway? I felt a surge of pride in her. A boring and redundant detail, you may think, but now any memory of my baby is to be treasured, especially one of the last to date I have to cling on to.
Gerry came through to say goodnight. We helped Sean and Amelie give their big sister a ‘night-night’ kiss before laying them in their adjacent travel cots. Then we kissed the twins, and kissed Madeleine, already snuggled down with her ‘princess’ blanket and Cuddle Cat – a soft toy she’d been given soon after she was born and never went to bed without. We were in no doubt that all three would be asleep in an instant. As always, we left the door a few inches open to allow a glimmer of light into the room.
Between 7.15 and 7.30pm Gerry took his shower and I went to blow-dry my wayward fringe and put on a bit of make-up. We then sat down together in the sitting room for three-quarters of an hour or so and relaxed with a drink. We talked about the holiday and whether we’d do anything differently if we were to come again, which we had been considering. We both thought that another time we’d quite like to stay in the apartment on our own some evenings (the other couples probably felt that way, too), have a leisurely dinner in the sitting room or on the veranda, and enjoy one of our famous early nights. In fact, we’d wondered about doing that tonight, but as it was such a short holiday, and almost over, it seemed a bit unsociable not to join in with everyone else. Another decision that could have gone either way. (Madeleine)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1212 on: June 16, 2015, 06:25:57 PM »
You and Misty are leaving me behind on this pegasus'

Pathfinder has posted crime scene photographs showing the cupboard when it has been cleared.

Pathfinder posted photos taken on 4/5/2007 after 1530hrs.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

*snip*
- OBSERVATIONS AND ANALYSES PERFORMED -
On 4 May 2007, at 15:30, a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory, comprising the undersigned, went, at the request of DIC PJ Portimao, to a dwelling situated at Apartment 5A, of Block A of the tourist accommodation building, "Ocean Club" - Praia da Luz, Lagos, in order to perform a specialist examination of the location.There follow photograph displays of the exterior of the apartment to be examined as well as detail of the entrance thereto.

Offline DCI

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Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1213 on: June 16, 2015, 06:45:41 PM »
Pathfinder posted photos taken on 4/5/2007 after 1530hrs.http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

*snip*
- OBSERVATIONS AND ANALYSES PERFORMED -
On 4 May 2007, at 15:30, a Crime Scene team from the Police Science Laboratory, comprising the undersigned, went, at the request of DIC PJ Portimao, to a dwelling situated at Apartment 5A, of Block A of the tourist accommodation building, "Ocean Club" - Praia da Luz, Lagos, in order to perform a specialist examination of the location.There follow photograph displays of the exterior of the apartment to be examined as well as detail of the entrance thereto.

Have you noticed just how much has been moved around, between the times the two crime scene photo's were taken?

Cots moved nearer Madeliene's bed, wicker chair moved, window removed and placed where chair was, table cleared.  That's just the few I noticed up to now!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 06:49:51 PM by DCI »
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Offline misty

Re: Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?
« Reply #1214 on: June 16, 2015, 06:54:27 PM »
Have you noticed just how much has been moved around, between the times the two crime scene photo's were taken?

Cots moved nearer Madeliene's bed, wicker chair moved, window removed and placed where chair was, table cleared.  That's just the few I noticed up to now!

I also thought CSI officers would have been in suitable protective clothing.