Is there any hard evidence whatsoever in the Madeleine McCann case?

[pathfinder73]

Of course the shoes matter. Did Gerry have a pair of shoes in 5a on that holiday which matched the description given by the Smiths? Is there any photographic evidence of them?

Who cares they are long gone. Gonna match his track prints 8 years later are they 

[pegasus]

@Carana Because the dog entered by window. No-one would use a window if they had a key. I assume there is a clause in the ownership deeds of each apartment allowing access in emergencies. If not a search warrant can be obtained very quickly (the search warrant for the Flores house took only about a day to get IIRC).

[sadie]

@Carana Because the dog entered by window. No-one would use a window if they had a key. I assume there is a clause in the ownership deeds of each apartment allowing access in emergencies. If not a search warrant can be obtained very quickly (the search warrant for the Flores house took only about a day to get IIRC).

In some cases a delay might be OK.

But in a missing child case, a day is a long time.

[pegasus]

In some cases a delay might be OK.

But in a missing child case, a day is a long time.

The search warrant for the R Das Flores house is in the files and it was issued by the judge in a few hours. Apt 5J IMO probably didn't need a warrant.

[mercury]

The search warrant for the R Das Flores house is in the files and it was issued by the judge in a few hours. Apt 5J IMO probably didn't need a warrant.

I imagine a scent dog search doesn't require a warrant to enter any area as it is not suspect related?

[pegasus]

I imagine a scent dog search doesn't require a warrant to enter any area as it is not suspect related?

I know they didn't have a key. Whether a warrant or a clause in the maintenance contract was used is not important.

[ShiningInLuz]

I know they didn't have a key. Whether a warrant or a clause in the maintenance contract was used is not important.

If there is a thread for discussing 5J, be so kind as to point me at it.  I don't want to get a wrist-slap for being off-topic.

Thanks
 

[pegasus]

Maybe we could have a thread called "Other"?

[Miss Taken Identity]

In some cases a delay might be OK.

But in a missing child case, a day is a long time.

...not really as far as collecting evidence is concerned. Some cases are very old but detectives still manage to retrieve 'evidence' which can convict someone...

[sadie]

...not really as far as collecting evidence is concerned. Some cases are very old but detectives still manage to retrieve 'evidence' which can convict someone...

So it was OK that the dogs were alerting it seemed to 5J.  Madeleine might have been in there?

Yet a days wait didn't / doesn't matter?

[mercury]

So it was OK that the dogs were alerting it seemed to 5J.  Madeleine might have been in there?

Yet a days wait didn't / doesn't matter?

Since when has the smell of rotting food indicated a live child. Honestly.

[sadie]

Since when has the smell of rotting food indicated a live child. Honestly.

The dogs alerted.  No-one knew at that stage whether it was to rotting food or Madeleine or what

A day to get a key and permission to go in, was too long IMO




but if your child was missing, then I guess it would have been OK for you?

[G-Unit]

So it was OK that the dogs were alerting it seemed to 5J.  Madeleine might have been in there?

Yet a days wait didn't / doesn't matter?

All the searches were carried out under the control of the GNR. The PJ asked them to use the dogs on 7th May to search the apartment blocks. They showed interest in 5A  & 5J. I assume a report was then given to the PJ who then asked for the searches to be repeated on 10th May, but this time entering the apartments also. There are discrepancies in the GNR statements about when these searches were carried out, by the way. The dog handler says 8th May for the second search.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time). Concerning apartment 5J, the same may have been conditioned by the presence of people in the interior or he could have sniffed an odour that needed to be confirmed.
On the other hand, given the interest of the dog(s) in some of the apartment doorways, this could signify nothing, but could also very well mean that the dog has caught the odour. The dog did not demonstrate to its owner that it had found the scent it was searching for.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html

[sadie]

All the searches were carried out under the control of the GNR. The PJ asked them to use the dogs on 7th May to search the apartment blocks. They showed interest in 5A  & 5J. I assume a report was then given to the PJ who then asked for the searches to be repeated on 10th May, but this time entering the apartments also. There are discrepancies in the GNR statements about when these searches were carried out, by the way. The dog handler says 8th May for the second search.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

It is certain however, that the dog signalled next to apartments 5J, 5H, and 4G. He showed great interest in sniffing these doors and the immediate areas. Next to door 5H there were two bags of rubbish and the odour may have distracted the dog. Outside 4G was a tray of plates, cutlery and cloth napkins that had apparently been used. This apartment is where the parents of the missing child were staying (at the time). Concerning apartment 5J, the same may have been conditioned by the presence of people in the interior or he could have sniffed an odour that needed to be confirmed.
On the other hand, given the interest of the dog(s) in some of the apartment doorways, this could signify nothing, but could also very well mean that the dog has caught the odour. The dog did not demonstrate to its owner that it had found the scent it was searching for.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id258.html

But there was enough of an alert for the PJ to want to go in and look?

I maintain that having to wait a day is too long in missing child cases especially. 

[G-Unit]

But there was enough of an alert for the PJ to want to go in and look?

I maintain that having to wait a day is too long in missing child cases especially.

Exactly. The PJ didn't ignore the alerts, they asked the dog handlers to take the next step and examine inside the apartments. The delay would be because of reporting up the chain of command and getting further instructions and because the dogs didn't indicate that Madeleine's scent was present. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but investigations are a process, done step by step. There is no evidence to suggest that 5J was significant even now.