The Quality of Witnesses in the Case.

[Anna]

Jacqueline's colleague  was Amy. How did she try to find out then? she has not said, but Charlotte Pennington said Amy phoned Lyndsay and Lyndsay confirmed it - at 10.20pm. Charlotte didn't leave the night creche according to Jacqueline, so the call must have been from there. Perhaps Amy ran straight to the McCann's apartment before making the call? She doesn't say in which order she did things, but she does say both parents and a friend were there when she was at the apartment. According to Gerry the first thing he did was close the shutters when he ran back to the apartment with Kate. The only friend who entered the apartment was Fiona, who didn't see the open shutters. None of them mention Amy coming and searching the apartment.

Amy found out by going to 5A and searching there
Lyndsay said that she was told that Madeleine had disappeared, by Amy at 10.20
No Fiona was not the only friend there..Diane was there first.
There was so many people in and out of 5A did the mccanns mention them all?


She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.

In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn’t know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.

After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there,

 This is when I believe she phoned Lyndsey from 5A ….It was urgent after all.

 I also think that the female friend was possibly Diane, who couldn’t remember much at all about the window…In a state of shock?

Why would Amy lie about the window?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post27240.html#p27240

[G-Unit]

You have posted no testimony, others have. The problem with everything posted is that the times claimed are prefixed by 'about' or 'around'.

BTW Alfie why does it matter so much to you what I think ?

It's interesting just what a wide variation there is among witnesses about the time the alarm was raised. The Tapas nine agree roughly, but they sat down and wrote the timeline before they gave their statements so they would agree. Because they colluded we could discount their statements, or count them as one rather than nine separate recollections. The Carpenters may have heard someone calling 'Madeleine' between 9.15 and 9.30pm. The executive chef Pelega says 9.20pm. Although the PJ concluded that the alarm was raised at 10pm, it seems it could have been any time between 9.15pm and 10.15pm.

[Alfred R Jones]

You have posted nothing but the estimated guesses of very busy staff whose approximation differ not only between each other but also the tapas friends. This of course brings us not one jot closer to the truth.

And TBH I'm perversely pleased that you acknowledge that you won't change mu PoV because now with any luck you'll give up trying and I won't have to put up with you stalking me all over the forum.

Why did you claim I had posted no testimony but that others had?  Why is it not testimony when I post it but it is testimony when others post it?  If you were to plot everyone's testimony re: when the alarm was raised on a graph and removed the extremes at either end. of the graph you would get a clear picture of when thr alarm was raised, around 10pm give or take a couple of minutes. 
PS I'm perversely pleased to learn that you don't enjoy my attentions, particularly when my posts challenge your flawed logic, it's very satisfying to know, thank you 

[Alfred R Jones]

It's interesting just what a wide variation there is among witnesses about the time the alarm was raised. The Tapas nine agree roughly, but they sat down and wrote the timeline before they gave their statements so they would agree. Because they colluded we could discount their statements, or count them as one rather than nine separate recollections. The Carpenters may have heard someone calling 'Madeleine' between 9.15 and 9.30pm. The executive chef Pelega says 9.20pm. Although the PJ concluded that the alarm was raised at 10pm, it seems it could have been any time between 9.15pm and 10.15pm.

Why do you think the PJ concluded that the alarm was raised at 10pm?

[G-Unit]

Amy found out by going to 5A and searching there
Lyndsay said that she was told that Madeleine had disappeared, by Amy at 10.20
No Fiona was not the only friend there..Diane was there first.
There was so many people in and out of 5A did the mccanns mention them all?


She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.

In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn’t know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.

After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there,

 This is when I believe she phoned Lyndsey from 5A ….It was urgent after all.

 I also think that the female friend was possibly Diane, who couldn’t remember much at all about the window…In a state of shock?

Why would Amy lie about the window?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post27240.html#p27240

When Dianne was there, so was Fiona;

The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

[faithlilly]

Why do you think the PJ concluded that the alarm was raised at 10pm?

Did you forget this Alfie ?

From the PJ's final report :

'(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,'

[pathfinder73]

When Dianne was there, so was Fiona;

The question being asked about the people that were inside the apartment of McCANN at that time, the witness said that the McCANN couple were present (although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY), and FIONA,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DIANNE_WEBSTER_11-MAY07.htm

although on the first occasion she had no recollection of having seen GERRY

[sadie]

Did you forget this Alfie ?

From the PJ's final report :

'(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,'

One of the waiters phoned thru didn't he?

Was it Jeronimo?


Please correct me if I am remembering incorrectly.

[G-Unit]

Why do you think the PJ concluded that the alarm was raised at 10pm?

(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

[Alfred R Jones]

Did you forget this Alfie ?

From the PJ's final report :

'(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,'

So there we go then - proof positive that Gerry was mistaken!  Thanks for finding this. 

[Alfred R Jones]

(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

Note that the Final Report also says:

What happened during the time lapse between 5.30 p.m. (the time at which MADELEINE was seen for the last time by a person that differs from her parents or siblings) and the time at which the disappearance is reported by KATE HEALY (at around 10 p.m.).

[Alfred R Jones]

(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

Also, please note that it says this in the Final Report too (re: the Smiths Sighting)...


 It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.

[Anna]

Did you forget this Alfie ?

From the PJ's final report :

'(later on it was verified that the detection and the subsequent alarm of the same, in reality happened, between 22H00 and 22H10 of the day 3 of May of 2007,'

Fiona didn't get there until after her search and had sent Matt to call police at 10.20 approx.
Diane got there before that. Fiona then sent Diane to watch over their children so that she could stay with Kate

 Prompted to state for the record the movements that occurred that night, during the above dinner, the witness reiterated that she could not say specifically who had left nor when they had done so.

- Therefore, she can only say with precision that, at 22.00 Kate McCann returned to the restaurant, seemingly in panic, communicating to others the fact that of Madeleine's disappearance. Asked about the reaction of other members of the group when they heard the above from KATE, the witness says that everyone, except the witness, left the restaurant and went to the apartment of the couple McCANN in order to find out what was going on.
In turn, as relates to her, the witness says she stayed at the restaurant for about five minutes, then, noting that the remaining members of the group had not returned, she followed in the direction of the apartment McCANN.

- In that apartment she found that KATE was completely in panic, in "state of shock ".
- Because she was asked, she states that she entered the apartment by the sliding glass door of the patio at the back, which gives access to the lounge. Then she went to the children's bedroom, noting that there she found KATE and the twin siblings of MADELEINE
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post459.html#p459

[pathfinder73]

Amy found out by going to 5A and searching there
Lyndsay said that she was told that Madeleine had disappeared, by Amy at 10.20
No Fiona was not the only friend there..Diane was there first.
There was so many people in and out of 5A did the mccanns mention them all?


She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine could have been taken by someone.

However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.

In reply to the question asked, she said that the back door (porta das traseiras) that leads to the parking area was closed, but she doesn’t know whether the front door (porta da frente) was locked as when she arrived both the parents and a female friend of theirs whose name she does not know, were there and that is why the door was open.

After having searched the apartment and verified that the girl was not there,

 This is when I believe she phoned Lyndsey from 5A ….It was urgent after all.

 I also think that the female friend was possibly Diane, who couldn’t remember much at all about the window…In a state of shock?

Why would Amy lie about the window?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post27240.html#p27240

Dianne was there first then Fiona arrived next at around 10:10. Emma Knight arrived 10 minutes later at around 10:20 and only Kate and Fiona were present at 5A - no Amy. Emma received a call from the night creche at 10:17 and went to 5A.

I was told who the missing girl was and at the beginning of the procedure went to the McCann's apartment to obtain the girl's description and of the clothes she was wearing when she disappeared. When I arrived at the apartment, there was a lady on the terrace, whom I now know to be Kate McCann, accompanied by the wife of one of her friends, David Payne. Kate could not say a word, looked very upset and about to cry. It was Mrs Payne who provided me with the details that I needed. (Emma Knight)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA-LOUISE.htm

[faithlilly]

So there we go then - proof positive that Gerry was mistaken!  Thanks for finding this.

Remember this from an earlier post of yours Alfie :

'Why did they not put the time of the alert at around 10.10pm or 10.15pm which would have been much closer to Gerry's stated time '

Which is exactly what the PJ did.