Author Topic: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files  (Read 52308 times)

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ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2015, 07:20:19 PM »
I really hate to say this again ferryman, but it's about time you got the message.

The crime is undetermined, and from that point, work it out for yourself.

What the Portuguese Attorney-General said is what he said (the McCanns are innocent).

What the archiving dispatch says is what it says (the McCanns are innocent).

What the the final PJ report says is what it says (the McCanns are innocent).

The only discordant note is sounded by the book of Goncalo Amaral.

That's why Amaral lost the libel trial ....

stephen25000

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Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2015, 07:23:20 PM »
What the Portuguese Attorney-General said is what he said (the McCanns are innocent).

What the archiving dispatch says is what it says (the McCanns are innocent).

What the the final PJ report says is what it says (the McCanns are innocent).

The only discordantc note is sounded by the book of Goncalo Amaral.

That's why Amaral lost the libel trial ....

They haven't been charged, so how can they be innocent or guilty of a crime that is undetermined  ?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2015, 07:26:17 PM »
They haven't been charged, so how can they be innocent or guilty of a crime that is undetermined  ?

The fact they haven't been charged is what determines that they are innocent ...

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2015, 07:27:01 PM »
The fact they haven't been charged is what determines that they are innocent ...

Crime unknown ferryman.

Try to comprehend that.

Offline jassi

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2015, 07:30:30 PM »
The fact they haven't been charged is what determines that they are innocent ...

That is patently untrue.  Lots of people who are guilty never get charged.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2015, 07:40:49 PM »
That is patently untrue.  Lots of people who are guilty never get charged.

No charges were brought precisely because a 15-month investigation could find no trace of anything remotely suspicious against the McCanns.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2015, 07:41:14 PM »
IIRC a whole new myth was born, (i.e.the McCanns control the Press) because the word 'monitor' used by Clarence Mitchell during an Italian interview was translated into Italian and then back into English - when it became 'control'.

It was then claimed that he had said his job was to control the press, when what he'd actually said  - was that his job was to monitor the Press.

This myth is still being claimed today by some folk.

Was that in the PJ Files?
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Offline G-Unit

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2015, 07:44:47 PM »
No, but various sleepy people scribbling notes as to which was the back versus the front with an arrow as to which required a key could easily explain the initial confusion.

If there hadn't been one, the officer would have picked Kate up on it, don't you think? And why on earth would Kate have stated the other door without being questioned about it? Why did the first officer not pick up on Gerry supposedly saying that he'd entered via one door, but left by the patio? And through which others went to check?

The matter was later clariified anyway, however, it was diplobabbly worded.

Obviously you aren't going to accept the discrepancy, so I rest my case. The statements are clear.
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Offline Carana

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2015, 08:18:20 PM »
Obviously you aren't going to accept the discrepancy, so I rest my case. The statements are clear.

Not to me. If they had been taken verbatim, I'd have found it much clearer whether there were any lost-in-translation/confusion issues or discrepancies or not.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2015, 08:42:24 PM »
Not to me. If they had been taken verbatim, I'd have found it much clearer whether there were any lost-in-translation/confusion issues or discrepancies or not.

I have looked at the PJ Files, TV interviews, press interviews and other sources and have decided that I doubt the story told by the McCanns. Those who don't doubt the McCanns doubt the efficiency of the PJ, the honesty of translators, the intelligence of those who doubt the McCanns and the reliability of police dogs. What a lot of different elements to discredit simply to support the word of two people they don't even know.
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ferryman

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Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2015, 08:56:50 PM »
I have looked at the PJ Files, TV interviews, press interviews and other sources and have decided that I doubt the story told by the McCanns. Those who don't doubt the McCanns doubt the efficiency of the PJ, the honesty of translators, the intelligence of those who doubt the McCanns and the reliability of police dogs. What a lot of different elements to discredit simply to support the word of two people they don't even know.

Not true on the first point I underline.

I'm not aware of any reason to suspect dishonesty on the part of translators.  But scope for (honest) mistakes in translation was huge.

And the only police dogs deployed in the shelved investigation were the GNR dogs.

I've no reason to suppose that their handlers were other than scrupulously honest.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2015, 09:40:49 PM »
I have looked at the PJ Files, TV interviews, press interviews and other sources and have decided that I doubt the story told by the McCanns. Those who don't doubt the McCanns doubt the efficiency of the PJ, the honesty of translators, the intelligence of those who doubt the McCanns and the reliability of police dogs. What a lot of different elements to discredit simply to support the word of two people they don't even know.

I have looked at the files, tv and press interviews and other sources and have come to the conclusion that the McCanns are not criminally involved in maddie's disappearance. I think the PJ investigation was poor...I don't doubt the honesty of the translators but non verbatim twice translated reports are bound to contain errors. I listen to what mark Harrison and grime have to say about the dogs and believe them. Although Grime's statement ha been translated it is verbatim and agrees with what Harrison has to say.  I think on the whole mccannn supporters seem to be more intelligent than the sceptics.

There are millions of people who think the evidence supports the earth being 6000 yrs old...I place those who doubt the McCanns in the same class

Offline Anna

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2015, 10:12:15 PM »
Please try and return to the topic. Thank you
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Brietta

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2015, 11:28:57 PM »

Just one example of a document which was translated from English to Portuguese and then back to English, giving the translator problems.


Deposition of: JOHN ROBERT LOWE BSc CBiol MlBiol RFP

iv) A observacao de perfis STR mistos (isto e, de mais de um individuo) pode ser prevenida quando estas condicoes se verificam.

TRANSLATOR'S NOTE: This sentence can have several meanings. The literal translation is:
"The observation of mixed STR profiles (that is, from more than one person) may be prevented when those conditions occur."

If, however, the writer is intending to convey a linkage with his previous paragraph, it can be translated as:

"Mixed DNA profiles may be predicted [alternative meaning of 'prevenir': to warn; to forewarn] when those conditions [from the previous paragraph, i.e. the possibility of unknown sources] occur.

We would need to see the actual English report written by Lowe to understand his intended meaning.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic10.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Please list all the translation errors in the PJ files
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2015, 11:44:17 PM »
Just one example of a document which was translated from English to Portuguese and then back to English, giving the translator problems.


Deposition of: JOHN ROBERT LOWE BSc CBiol MlBiol RFP

iv) A observacao de perfis STR mistos (isto e, de mais de um individuo) pode ser prevenida quando estas condicoes se verificam.

TRANSLATOR'S NOTE: This sentence can have several meanings. The literal translation is:
"The observation of mixed STR profiles (that is, from more than one person) may be prevented when those conditions occur."

If, however, the writer is intending to convey a linkage with his previous paragraph, it can be translated as:

"Mixed DNA profiles may be predicted [alternative meaning of 'prevenir': to warn; to forewarn] when those conditions [from the previous paragraph, i.e. the possibility of unknown sources] occur.

We would need to see the actual English report written by Lowe to understand his intended meaning.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic10.html

Reading the translator's note gives a measure of the difficulties faced in dealing with documents translated from English to Portuguese and back to English.

If such an endeavour could be 100% accurate on every occasion I think it could be considered as nothing short of miraculous.

On this occasion perhaps because of the scientific content the translator has taken pains to explain his / her reasoning ... there must have been occasions when this diligence was not performed by translators, allowing misleading nuances and mistakes to creep in.


**snip
[/i]Experimental data is available that permits a scientist to assess some questions relating to the transference and persistance of low-level DNA in objects and if they can be put together in [whether they - the questions/assessments - are relevant to] this case. Hence, consideration must be given to the manner in which the detected DNA was transferred to the object and, consequently, the relevance of the discovery of the corresponding DNA profiles to those individuals concerned.[/i]

TRANSLATOR'S NOTE: The entire paragraph above was fraught with difficulty, mainly because of its relevance and importance when we read several of Lowe's analyses later on in the report.
The encountered difficulty raised the question in my mind as to whether the English-to-Portuguese translator, Lieve van Loock, simply converted written words - as I am attempting to do in reverse - or if (s)he actually had access to Lowe in order to question his intended meaning.

If the former then (s)he, like me, was faced with the need to decide on an intended meaning before selecting the words to be written in the translation. In other words, I could be attempting to translate a mis-translation of the original English.

Having said that, however, the above difficulty does not detract from the interpretation of what Lowe said in his individual analyses, as we shall see later.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic10.html
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....