Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website

[ferryman]

"Very rarely does a genuine reinvestigation have a strictly limited remit. This one did. It is only allowed to investigate 'the abduction'.

Which mod on here was saying not long ago that speculation wasn't allowed?

Interesting the way that (marginal) tweaking of words can change an entire context.

Compare only allowed (to investigate)

with

only (investigating)

Hmmmm!

The Portuguese have primacy in the investigation (just as first time around) ....

[Carana]

I would only add that I believe I have much evidence, falling short of 'proof' I fully concede, that Operation Grange is a sham. Very rarely does a genuine reinvestigation have a strictly limited remit. This one did. It is only allowed to investigate 'the abduction'. As yet, just as we have no 'proof' that Operation Grange is a sham, we also have no 'proof' that Madeleine McCann was abducted. It is obvious that there are other possibilities, just as the Portuguese authorities stated when shelving the investigation back in July 2008.

Alfred R Jones wrote:  "Have you worked out a logical and plausible reason for why the govt would agree to shell out £11m to knowingly perpetuate a sham in the case of a missing child?"  REPLY: Yes. I worked that out when after just a few days the Head of Tony Blair's Media Monitoring Unit was appointed to take charge of a mammoth international PR exercise on behalf of the McCanns. I knew then that 'something was up'. Something big. And not a thing since then has changed my view.

Tonight the number of signers of the petition has crawled up to 1,460. A subject no doubt of more mirth, scorn and ridicule from some.

But THANK YOU to anyone on here who has signed it, and all the 1,460 who have done so to date   

Do you actually want this child to be found?

[pathfinder73]

I would only add that I believe I have much evidence, falling short of 'proof' I fully concede, that Operation Grange is a sham. Very rarely does a genuine reinvestigation have a strictly limited remit. This one did. It is only allowed to investigate 'the abduction'. As yet, just as we have no 'proof' that Operation Grange is a sham, we also have no 'proof' that Madeleine McCann was abducted. It is obvious that there are other possibilities, just as the Portuguese authorities stated when shelving the investigation back in July 2008.

Alfred R Jones wrote:  "Have you worked out a logical and plausible reason for why the govt would agree to shell out £11m to knowingly perpetuate a sham in the case of a missing child?"  REPLY: Yes. I worked that out when after just a few days the Head of Tony Blair's Media Monitoring Unit was appointed to take charge of a mammoth international PR exercise on behalf of the McCanns. I knew then that 'something was up'. Something big. And not a thing since then has changed my view.

Tonight the number of signers of the petition has crawled up to 1,460. A subject no doubt of more mirth, scorn and ridicule from some.

But THANK YOU to anyone on here who has signed it, and all the 1,460 who have done so to date   

The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and anyone who thinks Smithman was invented from Sagres man and not seen by nine eye witnesses (five children) should take a long holiday. Did that include his hair 

[Carana]

Interesting the way that (marginal) tweaking of words can change an entire context.

Compare only allowed (to investigate)

with

only (investigating)

Hmmmm!

The Portuguese have primacy in the investigation (just as first time around) ....

I can't be bothered to find all the petitions to get the case reopened when it was assumed in certain quarters that the McCanns would automatically become arguidos again... but they have since launched other petitions to get it shut down once it finally dawned on them that this wasn't the case.

One might question whether they ever really wanted to support finding a missing child.

[ferryman]

I can't be bothered to find all the petitions to get the case reopened when it was assumed in certain quarters that the McCanns would automatically become arguidos again... but they have since launched other petitions to get it shut down once it finally dawned on them that this wasn't the case.

One might question whether they ever really wanted to support finding a missing child.

And who pushed hardest to get the case re-opened?

Oh yes, the McCanns.

Strange that ....

[G-Unit]

And who pushed hardest to get the case re-opened?

Oh yes, the McCanns.

Strange that ....

To be strictly accurate they never, as far as I know, asked for the original case to be re-opened, which they could have done. They asked for a review to be undertaken in the UK, which is not re-opening anything.

[Alfred R Jones]

To be strictly accurate they never, as far as I know, asked for the original case to be re-opened, which they could have done. They asked for a review to be undertaken in the UK, which is not re-opening anything.

Why do you think they were so desperate for a review?

[Eleanor]

To be strictly accurate they never, as far as I know, asked for the original case to be re-opened, which they could have done. They asked for a review to be undertaken in the UK, which is not re-opening anything.

No, they could not have done because they had no new evidence.  Please don't try to change that.

[G-Unit]

Why do you think they were so desperate for a review?

A review which demonstrated the incompetence of initial investigation would perhaps have also demonstrated that the PJ were wrong to suspect the parents.

April 2008

Kate and Gerry are also calling for a full probe involving the FBI into Portuguese cops’ handling of the case.

They want a panel of missing children experts, including former US and Met police, to look at how the inquiry team handled itself.

Officers have been accused of bungling the investigation since Maddie, four, went missing from Praia da Luz last May.

Last night their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “We believe Portuguese police have been found wanting. We are asking the British Government to call for such an inquiry. It’s important for Madeleine and other missing children.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/madeleine/1037189/News-Maddie-Madeleine-McCann-The-McCanns-want-an-FBI-probe.html

[G-Unit]

No, they could not have done because they had no new evidence.  Please don't try to change that.

They could have appealed against the archiving process;

Nevertheless, anyone who feels unsatisfied about the epilogue of the investigations, will have the possibility to react against it, having the possibility of eventually changing that epilogue, by prompting diligences based on new evidence, as long as that person has the legitimacy to request them and the requested diligences are serious, pertinent and consequent. They may do so in three ways: by requesting the reopening of the inquiry, under article 279, number 1 of the Penal Process Code; by appealing hierarchically against this dispatch under number 2 of article 278, or in another case, under number 2 of article 279 of the Penal Process Code, or by requesting the opening of the instruction under article 287, number 1, item b, of the Penal Process Code.

[Brietta]

I would only add that I believe I have much evidence, falling short of 'proof' I fully concede, that Operation Grange is a sham. Very rarely does a genuine reinvestigation have a strictly limited remit. This one did. It is only allowed to investigate 'the abduction'. As yet, just as we have no 'proof' that Operation Grange is a sham, we also have no 'proof' that Madeleine McCann was abducted. It is obvious that there are other possibilities, just as the Portuguese authorities stated when shelving the investigation back in July 2008.

Alfred R Jones wrote:  "Have you worked out a logical and plausible reason for why the govt would agree to shell out £11m to knowingly perpetuate a sham in the case of a missing child?"  REPLY: Yes. I worked that out when after just a few days the Head of Tony Blair's Media Monitoring Unit was appointed to take charge of a mammoth international PR exercise on behalf of the McCanns. I knew then that 'something was up'. Something big. And not a thing since then has changed my view.

Tonight the number of signers of the petition has crawled up to 1,460. A subject no doubt of more mirth, scorn and ridicule from some.

But THANK YOU to anyone on here who has signed it, and all the 1,460 who have done so to date   

For information:

The Policia Judiciaria carried out their own two year investigation into the available evidence on Madeleine McCann's case and have independently arrived at very much the same place that Operation Grange's investigation into the available evidence led them.

That is ... both the law enforcement agencies of Portugal and the United Kingdom have studied Madeleine McCann's case and both have reached the conclusion that Madeleine McCann was abducted on the 3rd May 2007.

If you disparage the Scotland Yard investigation you also denigrate the Policia Judiciaria investigation both of which had the same starting point and both of which reached the same destination ... that of abduction.

In my opinion your petition is a mistake ... one in a lengthy line of mistakes ... but do remember it is not only Scotland Yard you are insulting with the suggestions you have made in your posts on this forum ... by association and inference you are insulting the Policia Judiciaria who are working on the same case, using the same evidence and who are also looking for the perpetrator/s of the crime against Madeleine McCann which they have ascertained from the evidence ... is abduction.



23.10.2013  18:19 PJ quer reabrir caso Maddie

Autoridades portuguesas investigam nova pista que deverá levar à reabertura do processo do desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann.

As autoridades portuguesas ponderam reabrir o processo de desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann, na sequência da análise feita pela PJ do Porto ao longo dos últimos dois anos. A investigação deverá ficar a cargo da PJ de Faro e consistirá, para já, na inquirição de mais testemunhas. O Correio da Manhã sabe que a tese seguida será a de rapto e poderá haver diligências comuns � s que foram pedidas pelos ingleses. Na última semana o caso conheceu novos desenvolvimentos, principalmente com a divulgação do retrato robô http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/saiba-como-e-o-suspeito-prioritario-no-caso-maddie.html 
do principal suspeito e a nova pista que, tudo aponta, deverá levar �  reabertura do processo para saber o que aconteceu a Maddie na noite de 3 de Maio de 2007, na Praia da Luz.


The Portuguese authorities are considering reopening the disappearance of Madeleine McCann process , following the analysis by PJ Port over the past two years.

The investigation shall be borne by the PJ in Faro and consist , for now, in the hearing of witnesses .

The Correio da Manha know that the next thesis will be to kidnapping and there may be common to steps that were ordered by the British.

Last week the case met new developments , especially with the release of the picture Robot prime suspect and the new track that , everything points , should lead to the reopening of the case to find out what happened to Maddie on the night of May 3, 2007 , Praia da Luz .

Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/pj-quer-reabrir-caso-maddie.html

[G-Unit]

For information:

The Policia Judiciaria carried out their own two year investigation into the available evidence on Madeleine McCann's case and have independently arrived at very much the same place that Operation Grange's investigation into the available evidence led them.

That is ... both the law enforcement agencies of Portugal and the United Kingdom have studied Madeleine McCann's case and both have reached the conclusion that Madeleine McCann was abducted on the 3rd May 2007.

If you disparage the Scotland Yard investigation you also denigrate the Policia Judiciaria investigation both of which had the same starting point and both of which reached the same destination ... that of abduction.

In my opinion your petition is a mistake ... one in a lengthy line of mistakes ... but do remember it is not only Scotland Yard you are insulting with the suggestions you have made in your posts on this forum ... by association and inference you are insulting the Policia Judiciaria who are working on the same case, using the same evidence and who are also looking for the perpetrator/s of the crime against Madeleine McCann which they have ascertained from the evidence ... is abduction.



23.10.2013  18:19 PJ quer reabrir caso Maddie

Autoridades portuguesas investigam nova pista que deverá levar à reabertura do processo do desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann.

As autoridades portuguesas ponderam reabrir o processo de desaparecimento de Madeleine McCann, na sequência da análise feita pela PJ do Porto ao longo dos últimos dois anos. A investigação deverá ficar a cargo da PJ de Faro e consistirá, para já, na inquirição de mais testemunhas. O Correio da Manhã sabe que a tese seguida será a de rapto e poderá haver diligências comuns � s que foram pedidas pelos ingleses. Na última semana o caso conheceu novos desenvolvimentos, principalmente com a divulgação do retrato robô http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/saiba-como-e-o-suspeito-prioritario-no-caso-maddie.html 
do principal suspeito e a nova pista que, tudo aponta, deverá levar �  reabertura do processo para saber o que aconteceu a Maddie na noite de 3 de Maio de 2007, na Praia da Luz.


The Portuguese authorities are considering reopening the disappearance of Madeleine McCann process , following the analysis by PJ Port over the past two years.

The investigation shall be borne by the PJ in Faro and consist , for now, in the hearing of witnesses .

The Correio da Manha know that the next thesis will be to kidnapping and there may be common to steps that were ordered by the British.

Last week the case met new developments , especially with the release of the picture Robot prime suspect and the new track that , everything points , should lead to the reopening of the case to find out what happened to Maddie on the night of May 3, 2007 , Praia da Luz .

Ler mais em: http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/nacional/portugal/detalhe/pj-quer-reabrir-caso-maddie.html

Hmmm. Quoting a Portuguese newspaper. The ones who published all the smears against the McCanns? No direct quote from the PJ. I think I'll wait for a more reliable source.

[Carana]

The rationale behind the petition depends on your view of Operation Grange.

There are still some who believe that Operation Grange is an honest-to-goodness, full-hearted, no-holds-barred, without fear or favour, search for the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Even though it began with a strictly limited remit. Such people will regard this petition as inappropriate and pointless at best.

On the other hand, there is a growing number who have come to realise that Grange is a hugely expensive charade at the taxpayer's expense, designed purely to continue to influence public perception on the case. Such people may or may not support the petition depending on whether they think it will achieve anything.

But, well, 'nothing ventured, nothing gained'.

I suspect most of those who have signed have little hope that anything of value will be achieved by it. G-Unit summed this up as follows: "I don't see the point of the petition as the investigation is still 'live'. On the plus side it may serve as a reminder the Prime Minister that the money spent on Operation Grange wasn't his money and that the general public may have a legitimate interest in being informed as to what it has achieved". 

However, to date 1,322 have cheerfully signed it, a small way of registering a protest, perhaps, at the Operation Grange sham. If that is classed as 'failure' by many of the good members of this forum, well...I can live with that     

Blonk: "There are still some who believe that Operation Grange is an honest-to-goodness, full-hearted, no-holds-barred, without fear or favour, search for the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Even though it began with a strictly limited remit. Such people will regard this petition as inappropriate and pointless at best."


"What we sought to do is try and draw everything back to zero," said Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood. "Try and take everything back to the beginning and re-analyse and reassess everything, accepting nothing.

http://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-police-timeline-of-critical-90-minutes-changed

If you take everything back to zero, how can that be a "strictly limited" remit?

[blonk]

Blonk: "There are still some who believe that Operation Grange is an honest-to-goodness, full-hearted, no-holds-barred, without fear or favour, search for the truth about what really happened to Madeleine McCann. Even though it began with a strictly limited remit. Such people will regard this petition as inappropriate and pointless at best."


"What we sought to do is try and draw everything back to zero," said Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood. "Try and take everything back to the beginning and re-analyse and reassess everything, accepting nothing.

http://www.channel4.com/news/madeleine-police-timeline-of-critical-90-minutes-changed

If you take everything back to zero, how can that be a "strictly limited" remit?

PETITION SIGNERS: 1,488 >>> https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/108562

Er, he didn't say 'take' everything back to zero. He said 'draw'. Nor did he say he would 'start from zero'. He said he would draw 'everything' back to zero. That is quite a big task. He says he would get hold of 'everything'. And then drew everything back to zero. A bit like reversing the 'Big Bang', for those who believe there was a 'Big Bang'.

But, OK, let's ignore Redwood's meaningless piffle that speaks of 'drawing everything back to zero'. Let us assume that he actually meant 'starting from scratch', or, 'going back to Square One', or 'starting with a blank sheet of paper' etc.

In that case, he would have, as they say, 'ruled nothing in and ruled nothing out'.

But he couldn't do that. Because the true Head of Operation Grange, Redwood's boss, Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, the man some suspect of fitting up Barry George/Bulsara for the murder of Jill Dando, gave him strict orders:

"YOUR REMIT IS TO INVESTIGATE THE ABDUCTION"         

[stephen25000]

Er, he didn't say 'take' everything back to zero. He said 'draw'. Nor did he say he would 'start from zero'. He said he would draw 'everything' back to zero. That is quite a big task. He says he would get hold of 'everything'. And then drew everything back to zero. A bit like reversing the 'Big Bang', for those who believe there was a 'Big Bang'.

But, OK, let's ignore Redwood's meaningless piffle that speaks of 'drawing everything back to zero'. Let us assume that he actually meant 'starting from scratch', or, 'going back to Square One', or 'starting with a blank sheet of paper' etc.

In that case, he would have, as they say, 'ruled nothing in and ruled nothing out'.

But he couldn't do that. Because the true Head of Operation Grange, Redwood's boss, Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell, the man some suspect of fitting up Barry George/Bulsara for the murder of Jill Dando, gave him strict orders:

"YOUR REMIT IS TO INVESTIGATE THE ABDUCTION"       

Indeed.

The mystical abduction with zero proof.