Author Topic: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website  (Read 126978 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #360 on: February 04, 2016, 11:08:32 AM »
Redwood has said the parents are not suspects...in plain english that means they are ruled out

Who Redwood?  He's retired seemingly so history.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 11:12:56 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline G-Unit

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #361 on: February 04, 2016, 11:08:46 AM »
Blonk,    you can waffle as much as you like,  but it is the FIRST item on your list that you are enraged about.   SY are investigating an ABDUCTION,   the McCann's and their friends are not suspects.

They didn't follow the route you would have liked them to have did they?

So you have wracked your brains to find a nice little list of why OG is a sham.

The Portuguese are working along side OG are they are a sham too?

If SY are investigating an abduction then that's why the McCanns and friends are not suspects. We haven't seen the remit (if any) of the PJ. There are two groups in Portugal. One is investigating, the other is dealing with Operation Grange's requests for information, interviews and suchlike.
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Offline Benice

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #362 on: February 04, 2016, 11:10:59 AM »
I can answer exactly how that works in practice from my personal experience of representing Les Balkwell, father of Lee Balkwell, over the past 9 years. Lee was killed on 18 July 2002 and Essex Police immediately declared that this was no more than 'tragic accident'. Les has been challenging that assessment for over 13 years.

The day after Les first set up his website - 6 July 2006 - in which he made 22 specific allegations of misconduct against several senior police officers, the then Head of Professional Standards told him that he was going to get a new, independent Senior Investigating Officer, brought in specially from the Met, to undertake a 'compete investigative review of everything on the case'. Something like 'drawing everything back to zero'.

Only years later was he informed that the SIO - DCS Keith Garnish - had been specifically instructed by his superiors only to investigate the 22 allegations made by Les, and nothing more.

Then again, in 2010, as a result of the Independent Police Complaints Commission agreeing with Les that the original investigation was 'seriously flawed', Les was offered a 'full re-investigation' by Kent Police. However, only in late 2013 did Les discover that Essex Police had limited the remit in a number of ways - including 'not to investigate any issue that arose after the time of death on 18 July 2002'. This had the effect of ruling out all manner of lines of enquiry, such as a credible allegation that two police officers had tampered with the lorry after the date of death, to support the accident scenario.

Senior Investigating Officers and all their staff MUST obey their remit, which can however be altered from above. Moreover, it is potentially a serious disciplinary offence for any officer to step outside his/her remit.

We have no evidence whatsoever that the remit of Operation Grange was altered after they eventually announced on 4 January 2012 what it was.                   

   

That has nothing to do with the McCann case.    All cases are different.  SY were investigating ALL of the info in their possession re the McCann case - not just some of it.

Do you agree with the part of my previous post quoted below:    If not can you explain by what other method (apart from being instructed to ignore certain evidence)  the investigation could be restricted in practical workable terms to only considering 'abduction'.     

Quote
The only way I can see to achieve that -  is if DCI Redman/DCI Wall and the scores of police officers working on this case were instructed beforehand to IGNORE any evidence which may emerge during their scrutiny of the available evidence -  which pointed away from an abduction - and in the direction of the parents - no matter how clear that evidence was.         

unquote

For the above to happen - would require every one of the scores of police officers working on the case to be corrupt IMO.   Not to mention the creation of scores of potential 'whistle-blowers'.

Too daft for words IMO.



The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #363 on: February 04, 2016, 11:14:24 AM »
If SY are investigating an abduction then that's why the McCanns and friends are not suspects. We haven't seen the remit (if any) of the PJ. There are two groups in Portugal. One is investigating, the other is dealing with Operation Grange's requests for information, interviews and suchlike.

No....SY are investigating an abduction  BECAUSE the parents have been ruled out

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #364 on: February 04, 2016, 11:15:25 AM »
That has nothing to do with the McCann case.    All cases are different.  SY were investigating ALL of the info in their possession re the McCann case - not just some of it.

Do you agree with the part of my previous post quoted below:    If not can you explain by what other method (apart from being instructed to ignore certain evidence)  the investigation could be restricted in practical workable terms to only considering 'abduction'.     

Quote
The only way I can see to achieve that -  is if DCI Redman/DCI Wall and the scores of police officers working on this case were instructed beforehand to IGNORE any evidence which may emerge during their scrutiny of the available evidence -  which pointed away from an abduction - and in the direction of the parents - no matter how clear that evidence was.         

unquote

For the above to happen - would require every one of the scores of police officers working on the case to be corrupt IMO.   Not to mention the creation of scores of potential 'whistle-blowers'.

Too daft for words IMO.

far too daft

Offline Eleanor

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #365 on: February 04, 2016, 11:15:33 AM »
That has nothing to do with the McCann case.    All cases are different.  SY were investigating ALL of the info in their possession re the McCann case - not just some of it.

Do you agree with the part of my previous post quoted below:    If not can you explain by what other method (apart from being instructed to ignore certain evidence)  the investigation could be restricted in practical workable terms to only considering 'abduction'.     

Quote
The only way I can see to achieve that -  is if DCI Redman/DCI Wall and the scores of police officers working on this case were instructed beforehand to IGNORE any evidence which may emerge during their scrutiny of the available evidence -  which pointed away from an abduction - and in the direction of the parents - no matter how clear that evidence was.         

unquote

For the above to happen - would require every one of the scores of police officers working on the case to be corrupt IMO.   Not to mention the creation of scores of potential 'whistle-blowers'.

Too daft for words IMO.

It's not just your opinion.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #366 on: February 04, 2016, 11:20:08 AM »
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 11:36:21 AM by stephen25000 »

Offline Carana

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #367 on: February 04, 2016, 11:21:13 AM »

Blonk: 1.   "The strictly limited remit, i.e. only to investigate an abduction. This was pretty clear from Day One, but was later clarified by the Met. In answer to those on the thread who suggest that asking Freedom of Information Act questions on the case is a waste of money, may I pointed out that the precise remit was only dragged out of the Met after three FoI Act questions, one by myself." 



The McCanns met with whoever the Home Secretary was back in 2008/ 2009 to try to get an official review of the evidence. Nothing much appears to have happened for a year. They then met with Alan Johnson, who agreed to commission a scoping exercise, which was completed in March 2010.

Why on earth some people believe the McCanns would have persisted had they been involved is a mystery to me. The case had been archived and they could have just kept quiet.

A logical starting point would have been to examine the evidence from both perspectives. As part of clearing the ground under their feet, if there had been further areas of investigation that should have been conducted concerning the McCanns, they would have been highlighted as part of that exercise.

By the time it was finally agreed to conduct a thorough review, in the absence of any evidence of significance to the contrary, abduction was the most likely scenario.

For instance, we do know that a forensic timeline was conducted at some point. On the one hand that could pinpoint the short periods of time in which an abductor could have taken her, but in doing so would have raised a red flag if there hadn't been any feasible moments in which this could have happened. There may have also been further investigations or interviews that have not been made public.

The Portuguese also conducted their own review of the evidence and also stated that the McCanns weren't suspects. They could easily have waffled the usual "we are continuing to examine all lines of enquiry".

Are you suggesting that the Portuguese review and investigation are a sham as well?

Offline Benice

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #368 on: February 04, 2016, 11:26:08 AM »
I would imagine a police team works much like an accounts team. In a large company the accounts team input information into an accounting system; reciepts, payments, bank balances, assets. None of them can see the big picture. None of them can calculate the net worth of the company from the information they can access. None of them can decide which direction the company needs to take in the future.

Now imagine a team of policemen inputting into HOLMES. They are in the same position as an accounts assistant. They don't have the overall picture.

In both cases a very small amount of people can see the whole picture and decide which direction they wish to move in next, or how to interpret the information they have.

We have been told that the team was investigating an abduction, so that would be the direction they were taking.
To 'forensically examine' the timeline they had to take the group's statements at face value because there were no independent witnesses. They appear to have done that.

No-one has ever declared that they had 'ruled out' anyone. They declared certain people were not suspects or persons of interest, that's all. They didn't say why, but they could have done.

G do you really believe that if any evidence emerged from the files during the investigation which cast serious doubt on an 'abuction' - then that information/evidence would be ignored because it didn't fit in with SY's remit?

What do you think SY would have done with such evidence if it existed?




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #369 on: February 04, 2016, 11:26:27 AM »
Gerry Mccann lets slip, 'the dogs are evidence'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz7hQetKpZk

absolute rubbish by you...give us the exact quote and time

Offline Carana

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #370 on: February 04, 2016, 11:27:54 AM »
That has nothing to do with the McCann case.    All cases are different.  SY were investigating ALL of the info in their possession re the McCann case - not just some of it.

Do you agree with the part of my previous post quoted below:    If not can you explain by what other method (apart from being instructed to ignore certain evidence)  the investigation could be restricted in practical workable terms to only considering 'abduction'.     

Quote
The only way I can see to achieve that -  is if DCI Redman/DCI Wall and the scores of police officers working on this case were instructed beforehand to IGNORE any evidence which may emerge during their scrutiny of the available evidence -  which pointed away from an abduction - and in the direction of the parents - no matter how clear that evidence was.         

unquote

For the above to happen - would require every one of the scores of police officers working on the case to be corrupt IMO.   Not to mention the creation of scores of potential 'whistle-blowers'.

Too daft for words IMO.

The Portuguese would have to be complicit as well, which makes no sense.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #371 on: February 04, 2016, 11:43:48 AM »
No....SY are investigating an abduction  BECAUSE the parents have been ruled out

You're entitled to believe what you like, but you can't demonstrate the truth of it.
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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #372 on: February 04, 2016, 11:45:22 AM »
You're entitled to believe what you like, but you can't demonstrate the truth of it.

and you are in exactlly the same position...so please don't claim anything as fact

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #373 on: February 04, 2016, 11:49:26 AM »
You're entitled to believe what you like, but you can't demonstrate the truth of it.

and of course so is bennett

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Petition re Madeleine McCann on Prime Minister's website
« Reply #374 on: February 04, 2016, 11:51:37 AM »
You're entitled to believe what you like, but you can't demonstrate the truth of it.

The mccann supporters as do the mccanns, make a lot of claims.

It does not make them true, as with 'abduction'.

F.C.O.

'... and there is no evidence to support whether she was or was not abducted. '
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 11:56:05 AM by stephen25000 »