Author Topic: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case  (Read 99450 times)

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Offline G-Unit

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #360 on: February 10, 2016, 01:49:10 PM »
So, you seem to be implying that no one from the group went to the OC to ask them to phone the police, and that Matt & "Gerald" are lying, correct?

I am just giving the facts which are in the files so people can draw their own conclusions.
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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #361 on: February 10, 2016, 01:49:39 PM »
We are told ... Mr Amaral doesn't speak English.
It is quite possible that he doesn't, or that he doesn't speak it well.

The info about kids being taught English for 8 years at school seemingly applies to anyone under the age of 60.  I have not checked when it was made mandatory.

Back to Mr Amaral.  He was not a front-line officer, dealing with anyone in English.  He was higher up the food chain, where quite clearly he would have been communicating in Portuguese, not English.  I can't think of any situation where he would have required English, but to be honest, I haven't given it a great deal of thought.

I learned Latin for 3 years to age 15.  Since then, I have not used it in any significant way.  The longest joined up sentence I can manage now is 'te amo', which is not useful in an emergency.

There are clear instances in the files where people were not confident about speaking in English.  Like Mr Amaral, I would expect the GNR commander that night to conduct his work in Portuguese, not English.  I would not expect the cooks, chefs, gardeners and cleaners were not required to speak English.

But this is all irrelevant.  The Tapas 9 spoke to Portuguese people in English, not Portuguese.  To now make a language barrier a reason for not calling the authorities directly does not bear scrutiny.  They did not call the authorities directly.  They did not ensure English speaking staff called the authorities in a prompt manner.

Despite this, chapter 4 of Kate's book informs her audience that the response was tardy. p73 "Just after 10 past 10, Gerry asked Matt to run to the Ocean Club's 24 hour reception to get the staff to call the police."  Thus putting into the reader's mind that there was a very swift call to the police, when Matthew's statement in English makes it plain this did not happen. 

Followed by p73 "At 10:35 the police had still not arrived,".  Despite the fact that Kate claimed to be something of an expert of the files, she may not have twigged that the first call was at 10.41.  But the reader gets the perception of a tardy response, even before the police were called.

Followed by p75 "It was not until about 11.10pm that two policeman arrived from the nearest town, Lagos,"  The reader now has the perception that the patrol came from Lagos, not Odiaxere, the other side of Lagos.  The reader has the perception that the response time was 60 minutes, not 30 minutes.

This is gross disinformation.

Before the GNR arrived, they were already discussing roadblocks and sealing borders.  It is impossible to tell from the book whether this discussion occurred before or after the first phone call to the GNR, because the actual time of the first call to the GNR is not in the book.


What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #362 on: February 10, 2016, 01:50:16 PM »
We are told ... Mr Amaral doesn't speak English.

And he had a Degree in Law.  Or so we are told.  But he never learned to speak English.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #363 on: February 10, 2016, 01:51:42 PM »
And he had a Degree in Law.  Or so we are told.  But he never learned to speak English.

So what, that he never learned to speak English.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #364 on: February 10, 2016, 01:57:15 PM »
Perhaps you can point me to this claim I am alleged to have made?   And whilst you're at it perhaps you can explain your reason for making this apparent completely off-topic observation unless by it you were implying that the McCanns should have found it easier to communicate in Portuguese by dint of their chosen profession?
and this
There were a few digs at me about unsavoury comments, one relating to the fact that I expected to find doctors able to understand medical terms.

If someone has a pop at me, I am happy to correct the situation.

Before I get a response on this, no one IMO exceeded the forum rules.  However, words like stupid, unfeeling or unsavoury definitely deserve a response.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #365 on: February 10, 2016, 02:00:38 PM »
So what, that he never learned to speak English.

You missed the point, Stephen.  As ever.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #366 on: February 10, 2016, 02:02:14 PM »
Read my post again and you will see I never said that...my family has a medical background so I am well aware of what doctors do and do not know....Ordering a beer in a bar is not the same as trying to explain your daughter has disappeared
I see that no one has addressed the fact that they neither called directly nor ensured staff did.
What's up, old man?

Offline jassi

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #367 on: February 10, 2016, 02:02:29 PM »
You missed the point, Stephen.  As ever.


There was a point ??
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #368 on: February 10, 2016, 02:15:55 PM »
You obviously didn't read my post with any attempt to understand. I was perfectly able to buy a Kilo of Butter and Lamb Chop without being able to speak a foreign language.  So grocery buying was the least of my problems.

I would dispute "Mandatory", unless you can come up with a proven cite for that.  But then "Hairdressers" always were a par for the course.

The fact remains that most English people would not be able to speak a foreign language under duress, and nor would any foreigner be able to explain themselves under similar circumstances.
So it is silly and unfeeling to expect otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Portugal

I was wrong.  It is mandatory for 9 years.  Then they have to study a foreign language of their choice for a further 3 years.  According to my "Hairdresser" source, having studied English for so long, most choose to stick with English.

I would be grateful if you would cease from adding things like "silly and unfeeling" in posts directed towards me.
What's up, old man?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #369 on: February 10, 2016, 02:17:17 PM »

There was a point ??

So you missed the point as well.  No surprises there.

Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #370 on: February 10, 2016, 02:19:22 PM »
And he had a Degree in Law.  Or so we are told.  But he never learned to speak English.
Why would someone taking a degree in Portuguese law need to learn English?  A degree in Portuguese law taught within Portugal would be in Portuguese, unless it was really weird.
What's up, old man?

Offline jassi

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #371 on: February 10, 2016, 02:19:25 PM »
So you missed the point as well.  No surprises there.

Lets have a poll and see if anyone knows what you are on about.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline G-Unit

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #372 on: February 10, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »
There was someone who spoke perfect English, Portuguese and Spanish. He served the McCanns in the Tapas and often helped his Portuguese colleagues when they weren't sure what English people were saying. They interacted with this person all week. He served their meals. He was nearby, he spoke to Gerry, so I'm surprised they didn't ask him for help. This is his rog. statement;

I am a Portuguese national and I am fluent in Portuguese and Spanish. I have lived in the U.K. with my parents since 10 year of age......
I began working as a functionary at the Ocean Club on the 4th of April 2007 and my charge was to serve the bar and the Tapas Bar tables........
The other employees of the Tapas Bar on my schedule were Ricardo, Ze and Tiago?all of them Portuguese and with little knowledge of the English language. As a result of this, I was frequently called to attend British clients.......
I saw the man. Who I knew later to be Madeleines father, running to the pool and to the childrens play area in the Tapas zone as if looking for someone......I offered to alert the workers at the Milenium Restaurant and the man agreed. He then left again running to continue searching. I believe that this was between 21H30 and 22H00 but do not remember with certainty..........
I saw the head of the Milenium Restaurant in the Tapas and asked him to telephone the restaurant......
One of the employees looked to be organizing the searches and told us the name of the child. We were sent to the beach zone and looked in all the alleys and called out the name of the child but did not find her. Later, we returned to the Tapas where we found John, the Manager of Mark Warner.......
I do not know when the police were called but the first time I saw them was around 23h00-23h00 that night.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JERONIMO-SALCEDAS.htm
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Offline Eleanor

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #373 on: February 10, 2016, 02:27:58 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Portugal

I was wrong.  It is mandatory for 9 years.  Then they have to study a foreign language of their choice for a further 3 years.  According to my "Hairdresser" source, having studied English for so long, most choose to stick with English.

I would be grateful if you would cease from adding things like "silly and unfeeling" in posts directed towards me.

And I would be pleased if you didn't tell me that I don't know what I am talking about.

Do you know what "Mandatory" even means?

It is probably mandatory that French is available to be learned in UK, but don't tell me that this is enforceable.  It only means that it is available.


Offline Eleanor

Re: Why are some people so averse to parental involvement in this case
« Reply #374 on: February 10, 2016, 02:29:24 PM »
Lets have a poll and see if anyone knows what you are on about.

What was the point?  I often can't remember.