Author Topic: Wandering Off Topic  (Read 347077 times)

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Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2016, 02:09:36 AM »
Both men are carrying the same baguette Misty. The real question is why are they carrying it? It's absurd. Even the pope doesn't have an official "carrier of the baguette" following him around, and he certainly doesn't have two. The answer is that the baguette is irrelevant. So what are they really doing?  Maybe arranging something by mobile and waiting for agreement from PJ?

Do you have timings on those 2 pictures?



Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2016, 02:14:51 AM »
Do you have timings on those 2 pictures?
There are more than 2 pictures Misty. Lunchtime 5th IMO.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 02:28:22 AM by pegasus »

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2016, 02:44:09 AM »
There are more than 2 pictures Misty. Lunchtime 5th IMO.

Is it possible JH had bought them some provisions for lunch from the supermarket, brought them up to Gerry & then he, Kate, the twins & Fiona were walking back to the new apartment accompanied by man no.2?

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2016, 12:14:38 PM »
Is it possible JH had bought them some provisions for lunch from the supermarket, brought them up to Gerry & then he, Kate, the twins & Fiona were walking back to the new apartment accompanied by man no.2?
One report says some had lunch at tapas on 5th Misty. BTW to get permission to enter crimescene and remove all possessions only about 37 hours into the investigation must have taken some arranging?

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2016, 12:25:41 PM »
One report says some had lunch at tapas on 5th Misty. BTW to get permission to enter crimescene and remove all possessions only about 37 hours into the investigation must have taken some arranging?

Had it been sealed as a crime scene?

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2016, 12:44:27 PM »
Had it been sealed as a crime scene?
It was certainly an investigation scene which had keep out tape around it and was being guarded by the GNR (see photo taken morning 5th). But somehow permission was arranged to enter the investigation scene on morning of 5th and remove everything.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 12:50:45 PM by pegasus »

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2016, 12:47:41 PM »
It was certainly an investigation scene which was being guarded by the GNR, but somehow permission was arranged to enter the investigation scene on morning of 5th and remove everything.

Did the PJ ever tell the GNR not to allow anyone in who wasn't from the forensics team?

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2016, 12:54:21 PM »
Did the PJ ever tell the GNR not to allow anyone in who wasn't from the forensics team?
IMO the GNR would let in only PJ and people with permission from PJ, and IMO that is probably what the mobile calls were about Misty.

Offline Carana

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2016, 01:11:21 PM »
It was certainly an investigation scene which had keep out tape around it and was being guarded by the GNR (see photo taken morning 5th). But somehow permission was arranged to enter the investigation scene on morning of 5th and remove everything.


Yes, I agree that there was tape and a GNR chap. However, there was no CSI protocol back then. One was only even launched in Feb 2009.



Today, at the Polícia Judiciária’s School, in Lisbon, a crime scene practises manual is launched, establishing rules on how to enter, how to mark the investigators’ passage, how to photograph and/or draw a crime scene, among other procedures. “The potentialities in the collection of a certain type of residues are incommensurably different today from what they were years ago”, said Carlos Farinha, according to whom “nowadays the level of collection of elements on location is scarily superior”. Hence, he adds, the need to “reorganise and think about the manner to proceed on a crime scene”.


I don't have the link to hand, but the source is:

20 May 2009
PJ Laboratory receives 24 thousand requests per year

by Joana de Belém

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2016, 01:24:00 PM »
Thanks Carana. Yes the PJ have since greatly improved their CSI protocol. But even in PDL 2007 it was fairly good, because the PJ did see the need for forensics and insisted the family move out so that forensics could be done. Much better than a more recent UK case where those measures were not taken.

Offline G-Unit

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2016, 03:12:56 PM »
Thanks Carana. Yes the PJ have since greatly improved their CSI protocol. But even in PDL 2007 it was fairly good, because the PJ did see the need for forensics and insisted the family move out so that forensics could be done. Much better than a more recent UK case where those measures were not taken.

You mean the UK have bumbling incompetent policemen too? Well I never.
Accept nothing
Believe no-one
Confirm everything

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2016, 12:08:15 AM »
You mean the UK have bumbling incompetent policemen too? Well I never.
No, not bumbling incompetence. The PJ and the Met are both highly competent. The point is that lessons can be learnt from cases after they are solved, and CSI practices improved, I'll give you an example soon.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 12:46:43 AM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2016, 12:35:35 AM »
Example of how police can learn lessons from a solved case, to improve CSI in other cases.
The Met case of missing person in New Addington (where the many experts reportedly included our SIO).

Event: People were allowed to continue living in the property for the following nights and days.
Lesson: Move all residents out of the property to alternative accommodation.
Event: It was assumed the property had been completely searched.
Lesson: Never assume the property has been completely searched even if people tell you it has been.
Event: The entire search was based on an assumed timewindow of leaving property.
Lesson: Never rely on an assumed timewindow - it may be completely wrong by hours or more.
Event: Over-reliance was placed on one reported sighting of the missing person leaving the property.
Lesson: Never base a whole investigation on one sighting.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 12:45:06 AM by pegasus »

Offline misty

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2016, 12:48:01 AM »
Example of how police can learn lessons from a solved case, to improve CSI in other cases.
The Met case of missing person in New Addington (where the many experts reportedly included our SIO).

Event: People were allowed to continue living in the property for the following nights and days.
Lesson: Move all residents out of the property to alternative accommodation.
Event: It was assumed the property had been completely searched.
Lesson: Never assume the property has been completely searched even if people tell you it has been.
Event: The entire search was based on an assumed timewindow of leaving property.
Lesson: Never rely on an assumed timewindow - it may be completely wrong by hours or more.
Event: Over-reliance was placed on one reported sighting of the missing person leaving the property.
Lesson: Never base a whole investigation on one sighting

At what stage does a missing juvenile become a possible victim of a crime within the home?

Offline pegasus

Re: Wandering Off Topic
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2016, 12:54:00 AM »
At what stage does a missing juvenile become a possible victim of a crime within the home?
Crime scene investigation should gather facts without making any assumption of what the solution will be.