The Sun claims Madeleine McCann was kidnapped during a botched burglary.

[Alfie]

I know but I was simply rebutting Alfie's post by presenting Kate's own, embroidered, recollections.

Which part of my post was incorrect?  It is a fact that the same child can both sleep deeply undisturbed by loud noise and also wake in the night for no apparent reason at all.  If you think this is untrue please state why.

[faithlilly]

The fact that one of her children had just vanished and the window in their bedroom had apparently been opened might have had something to do with her raised anxiety levels about their breathing don't you think?

So you don't think it was because they were unresponsive?

[Alfie]

So you don't think it was because they were unresponsive?

The children were clearly fast asleep.  Had she gone in their room on an ordinary night and tried to wake them up and they hadn't stirred she would probably have had a little chuckle to herself and left them to sleep.  As it was, she believed that some malevolent presence had been in close proximity with her children and it is therefore unsurprising that she was concerned.  It really doesn't take a genius to understand this but maybe it helps if you have children of your own and understand that they can be both light sleepers and heavy sleepers all in the course of one evening.

[Miss Taken Identity]

Which part of my post was incorrect?  It is a fact that the same child can both sleep deeply undisturbed by loud noise and also wake in the night for no apparent reason at all.  If you think this is untrue please state why.

Well the parents gave evidence didn't they. They had a chart on the wall at home for Maddie to track waking up, they said that Maddie challenged them when the children woke up previous nights, then they said that they didn't use a particular door in case... welll...  in case they woke up the kids.. oh ouch... your move.

..and if you want to chuck in why they chose listening in stead of physically going into the rooms to check then...feel free to make up your account and pass it of as fact.

[Miss Taken Identity]

The children were clearly fast asleep.  Had she gone in their room on an ordinary night and tried to wake them up and they hadn't stirred she would probably have had a little chuckle to herself and left them to sleep.  As it was, she believed that some malevolent presence had been in close proximity with her children and it is therefore unsurprising that she was concerned.  It really doesn't take a genius to understand this but maybe it helps if you have children of your own and understand that they can be both light sleepers and heavy sleepers all in the course of one evening.

But a trained anaesthetist (Kate) would know if a child was in a deep sleep or... and Kate being the mother of the children would know if they were sleeping deeply or something didn't seem right, as a doctor just checking they were breathing without demanding they be taken to hospital to be checked to be sure, seems strange indeed.

If I suspected my babies had been interfered with in any capacity I would have called an ambulance! NO, Ifs No But's

[faithlilly]

The children were clearly fast asleep.  Had she gone in their room on an ordinary night and tried to wake them up and they hadn't stirred she would probably have had a little chuckle to herself and left them to sleep.  As it was, she believed that some malevolent presence had been in close proximity with her children and it is therefore unsurprising that she was concerned.  It really doesn't take a genius to understand this but maybe it helps if you have children of your own and understand that they can be both light sleepers and heavy sleepers all in the course of one evening.

It doesn't take a genius Alfie but in my experience I have never known two children to similtaneously sleep through the noise that must have been made in 5a that night and also to simultaneously stay asleep while they were taken out into the cold night air. One child I could just about believe but two? I'd say the odds were astronomical.......unless, of course, they had been drugged......but then again would burglars do that ?

[Miss Taken Identity]

It doesn't take a genius Alfie but in my experience I have never known two children to similtaneously sleep through the noise that must have been made in 5a that night and also to simultaneously stay asleep while they were taken out into the cold night air. One child I could just about believe but two? I'd say the odds were astronomical.......unless, of course, they had been drugged......but then again would burglars do that ?

Well faith, decent burglars would carry such drugs just in case their punters woke up, I would suspect a medical burglar would need to be involved purley so that the right amount was given- gosh wouldn't want to kill the kids right?... just enough to make them sleep deeply for a long time- well all night to be precise.

 You know the bad queen in Snowwhite  story,was very careful with her quantities of poison- just to make her sleep(induced coma) until a prince came a passing by.

[Alfie]

It doesn't take a genius Alfie but in my experience I have never known two children to similtaneously sleep through the noise that must have been made in 5a that night and also to simultaneously stay asleep while they were taken out into the cold night air. One child I could just about believe but two? I'd say the odds were astronomical.......unless, of course, they had been drugged......but then again would burglars do that ?

If I were ALice I'd be asking you to actually calculate the odds and present your calculations for us to examine but 'I'm not that pedantic.  Instead, let us consider the fact that the two children in question were twins, and so biologically very similar, had had the exact same experiences ever day that week, went to bed at exactly the same time.  Is it really so astronomically improbable that they were both difficult to rouse?  If one twin was in a deep sleep at the time, then why not both?

[faithlilly]

If I were ALice I'd be asking you to actually calculate the odds and present your calculations for us to examine but 'I'm not that pedantic.  Instead, let us consider the fact that the two children in question were twins, and so biologically very similar, had had the exact same experiences ever day that week, went to bed at exactly the same time.  Is it really so astronomically improbable that they were both difficult to rouse?  If one twin was in a deep sleep at the time, then why not both?

I have now, officially, heard it all. They didn't wake because they were twins ! 

[faithlilly]

Well faith, decent burglars would carry such drugs just in case their punters woke up, I would suspect a medical burglar would need to be involved purley so that the right amount was given- gosh wouldn't want to kill the kids right?... just enough to make them sleep deeply for a long time- well all night to be precise.

 You know the bad queen in Snowwhite  story,was very careful with her quantities of poison- just to make her sleep(induced coma) until a prince came a passing by.

Well it all makes sense when you put it like that MTI ! 

[Alfie]

I have now, officially, heard it all. They didn't wake because they were twins ! 

Pathetic response.  What specifically do you disagree with in what I wrote?

[Benice]

It doesn't take a genius Alfie but in my experience I have never known two children to similtaneously sleep through the noise that must have been made in 5a that night and also to simultaneously stay asleep while they were taken out into the cold night air. One child I could just about believe but two? I'd say the odds were astronomical.......unless, of course, they had been drugged......but then again would burglars do that ?

And yet some sceptics believe that on the 1st May the twins both soundly slept through Madeleine crying loudly for an hour and a quarter -  less than a couple of feet away from them.

[stephen25000]

And yet some sceptics believe that on the 1st May the twins both soundly slept through Madeleine crying loudly for an hour and a quarter -  less than a couple of feet away from them.

Were you there ?

[faithlilly]

And yet some sceptics believe that on the 1st May the twins both soundly slept through Madeleine crying loudly for an hour and a quarter -  less than a couple of feet away from them.

If they had been sedated that wouldn't be so odd.

[carlymichelle]

If they had been sedated that wouldn't be so odd.

 as being  discussed in another thread  children oftern  think pills/medicine is sweets  so     it is possible the twins  could have got into medcine while the adults were gone not saying the twins did but you know  what i  mean